Sony Tomorrow: Synergy in the Livingroom

[Paul]

"Paul....did you really meant to question archiez? For christ sake!! archiez used to work for Square as a programmer. Then again, i guess the Sony brainwashing must have gotten to you.

Lazy, dont be too harsh on Paul. That guy has great Sony ideals. j/k j/k"

Nice job with the little personal attacks there buddy. Sony brainwashing... Rofl.

If being interested in upcoming consoles means ive been brainwashed than so be it.

 

[archie4oz]

Damn! phpBB burp!

Just look at the specs on the thing.

And what do the specs tell you about the hardware? Not a whole lot really...

ignoring the Naomi 2 and various other solutions that could've been implemented into a console environment with favorable results

Have you actually held a NAOMI 2 board? They're not exactly dainty (thus suitable for a home unit). Besides, NAOMI 2 was barely unveiled when the PS2 was nearing it's US release...

 

[Paul]

"And what do the specs tell you about the hardware? Not a whole lot really..."

If specs don't tell you about hardware than I don't know what does.

Please elaborate, I wan't to learn, im not being sarcastic or anything.

 

[jvd]

(message delted)

Heh. What i meant is that in 6 months they are set to release a newer faster chip. So comparing tech that was announced and will be manufactured in 2 or 3 years can not be compared to what is out at the time of the announcment on the computer side of things . So right now the only thing we can compare to the ps3 is the r350 and the nv30... which is of course nothing compared to the ps3. Since these cards are out. We wont hear anything from the pc sector till the r400 is released and that chip is only meant to be top of the line for 6 months. Which basicly states that we have no clue what will be out in time for the xbox 2 launch . That puts sony at the disadvantage. Since thier cards are out on the table. Ms still has thier's close to the chest. Get my point ? Sorry if its not clear enough. Spring break lots of partying ..

 

[Paul]

I deleted the message because I thought you were quoting me not him, I misread it, it looked very similar to my post.

 

[Paul]

What part of Jersey do you live in? Im in Middlesex.

 

[marconelly!]

I know the geforce 1 was out and its said to run doom 3 at 30fps . I think that looks just as good if not better than console games

No - what has been said is that GF3 will be able to run doom 3 at ~30FPS. There is no chance in hell GF1 could even move that thing at a decent rate, but the game WILL display graphics on GF1 and it will look the same as on GF3/4/FX.

 

[jvd]

I know the geforce 1 was out and its said to run doom 3 at 30fps . I think that looks just as good if not better than console games

No - what has been said is that GF3 will be able to run doom 3 at ~30FPS. There is no chance in hell GF1 could even move that thing at a decent rate, but the game WILL display graphics on GF1 and it will look the same as on GF3/4/FX.

I thought he said geforce 1 would run it at 30fps at 640x480 and the geforce 3 class will run it at 800x600 .. I could be wrong. Mabye the geforce 1 was at a lower res. But then again 640x480 is better than the tv res.

 

[jvd]

What part of Jersey do you live in? Im in Middlesex.

Bergan county. Hasbrouck hieghts right next to wood ridge. I go to school at rutgars but soon i will be at njit.

 

[Paul]

I think when it comes down to it, we are all going to be REALLY impressed with the specs of the thing.

Obviously, any problems ps2 had will be fixed most likely for ps3 (vram), and the thing will kick some serious ass. IMO next gen the difference graphicly won't be as much, so it will be more about the games than graphics.

Online gaming will be huge, most likely you'll be able to play straight out of the box, I hope they include a mic! And I hope it's free too.

I really wanna see what Nintendo brings to the table.. Hell that fake Nexus didn't look half bad, too bad the specs weren't good for a 2005 system.

 

[Fafalada]

I know the geforce 1 was out and its said to run doom 3 at 30fps . I think that looks just as good if not better than console games

Heh, it'd be nice to see it go up to 30fps on a Radeon9700 first...

Anyway, speaking of slowass chips like GF1/2... Some food for Ben's arguments about those very chips which will surely follow in this thread - just the other day I ran Harry Potter PC version on my GF2.
At 1024, the game hobbles about around 15-20fps, while still managing to look like something you'd expect to run inside Bleem... :\
Console versions I've only seen in videos so far, but it looked a whole lot better and according to IGN runs at a bit higher fps too.

 

[chaperone]

Faf, blame EA.

 

[Fafalada]

Going by this forum typical arguments... it's Always the Hardware fault when it suits the argument one is making, so I will not blame EA for this.

 

[DeathKnight]

Does the Xbox honestly offer 3x the graphics power of any other console?

That's up for debate. With absolutely exemplary programming it shouldn't be far-fetched to get upwards of 40-60mpps (possibly just up to 50) somewhere down the line on Xbox games. Compare this to the logical reasoning that there won't be many Cube games that'll be pushing over 20mpps since the raw poly throughput is roughly 32.4mpps. I highly doubt there are any PS2 games that reach up into the 20's (anyone who knows otherwise can prove me wrong). In the end I don't think it's entirely false to claim that the Xbox (the whole graphics package) is roughly 2-3x as powerful.

And does it pump out 125 million polygons at any time in game?

I've seen a lot of people who try to use this in their arguments. Every single one of them hasn't seemed to realize that that figure (it's actually 116.5mpps at the 233MHz clockspeed) was never claimed as being "in-game" or an attainable rate in any kind of game situation. It's simply a raw figure, nothing more, nothing less, and it was never touted by M$ or any other Xbox representative as being anything other than that

 

[marconelly!]

I highly doubt there are any PS2 games that reach up into the 20's (anyone who knows otherwise can prove me wrong)

If you are going to compare just the polygons, that F1 PS2 game moves approx ~18 million pps (with all the effects and lighting). The best I've ever heard on the Xbox is ERP's racer (now a dead project) for which he said it moved ~30 mpps.

I think you are kidding yourself if you think Xbox games will ever reach 50-60 mpps ingame performance :\

 

[chaperone]

Going by this forum typical arguments... it's Always the Hardware fault when it suits the argument one is making, so I will not blame EA for this.

Not really. EA is just known to be the suck.
Well ok, they are not that bad.

 

[DeathKnight]

I think you are kidding yourself if you think Xbox games will ever reach 50-60 mpps ingame performance :\

Actually I'm not. Michael Abrash (the guy who basically designed Xbox graphics) even stated that with absolutely exemplary programming the Xbox can sustain upwards of 50mpps in actual game situations. Again, this is with absolutely exemplary programming and taking full advantage of the programmable pipeline. Who knows, we might not see this figure ever reached, but developers will get pretty damn close. ERP's racer was a first-gen Xbox game that was already pushing 30mpps. A few years down the line 40+mpps wouldn't seem out of place.

 

[Lazy8s]

archie4oz:

Have you actually held a NAOMI 2 board? They're not exactly dainty (thus suitable for a home unit).

Well, it's an arcade board - compacting the layout wasn't the priority it would've been had it been implemented into a home console. For a home unit, the design would've been optimized more cleanly to fit onto a couple chips, or instead substituted with Kyro+ level/era technology which was developed at the time.

Besides, NAOMI 2 was barely unveiled when the PS2 was nearing it's US release...

Various SEGA and AM2 reps of the time, including Yu Suzuki, confirmed they were already working with the hardware earlier in 2000. And software development for the arcade gets to take its sweet time comparatively versus the rush of a console launch, where the games are being developed at the same time that the system's development tools/environment are still being finalized.

 

[Almasy]

But Lazy, wasn´t PS2´s specs finalized in 1999 and Sony working on it since then? Naomi then would be a year younger technology. Or are you implying they had this thing working in 1999? And when was the first NAOMI 2 game released? AFAIK, working with the hardware doesn´t necessarily mean that the final specs are ready, and that the thing is ready to go into production.
Afterall, there´s a reason why it was unveiled close to the end of 2000.

 

[V3]

wasn´t PS2´s specs finalized in 1999 and Sony working on it since then?

The GS is probably finalised in 1997. From all the info, it seems they have finished GS spec and design before they start working on EE. Both chip were design for 0.25 process. Both were huge on that process >2.2cm2, that's bigger than the R300 and NV30 I belive. The EE was move to 0.18 process later. and the GS as well after that.