Sony Pictures announces its Blu-ray titles will now downscale resolution over analog

[Titanio]

Sony Pictures announces its Blu-ray titles will not downscale resolution over analog

edit - misspelled title! Sony Pictures announces its Blu-ray titles will not downscale resolution over analog

It seems like it's a running concern for early HDTV adopters with component connections only, or non-HDCP DVI - how resolution can be constrained on these connections with HD-DVD or Blu-ray - but it seems Sony Pictures for one will not be constraining resolution on analog with its Blu-ray titles:

http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/03/10/sony-pictures-blu-ray-titles-wont-down-res/#comments

That is the bad news, the good news is that Sony Pictures has announced that none of the movies that they own will exercise this right, which they refer to as a "Image Constraint Token". This of course doesn't mean that they won't ever use it, but instead will wait till analog piracy becomes a problem.

It's not confirmed, I don't think, but FWIW, some others in the Blu-ray camp apparently also won't be exercising the resolution constraint option. I think Warner and Universal may be the only ones that haven't given any firm indication yet.

 

[London Geezer]

Oh it was confirmed a long time ago. Both HDDVD and Bluray will downscale on analog- unless the publisher decides not to, but they enforced this so they'll make sure they use it - so millions of HDTV owners in the US are, in short, f***ed.

 

[Titanio]

Doh, the thread title meant to say NOT, not NOW, lol. Sorry! They're NOT constraining resolution. The point is that it's a studio's choice to downgrade resolution, on a title per title basis, and Sony has said they won't be (for now anyway).

Maybe a kind mod could edit my title

 

[Bobbler]

Doh, the thread title meant to say NOT, not NOW, lol. Sorry! They're NOT constraining resolution. The point is that it's a studio's choice to downgrade resolution, on a title per title basis, and Sony has said they won't be (for now anyway).

Maybe a kind mod could edit my title

Might as well remake/delete the thread and try again. =o

That 1 letter makes a rather large difference. Heh.

 

[Titanio]

Might as well remake/delete the thread and try again. =o

That 1 letter makes a rather large difference. Heh.

lol, I'm not able to delete threads unfortunately. I'm hoping anyone who bothers to come into the thread will see the correction fairly immediately Or moreover, that a mod might edit the title.

 

[kyleb]

Heh, cool, now I have something hard to throw in the face of all the drama queens who start screaming that the end is nigh every time HDCP gets brought up.

 

[Guden Oden]

Oh it was confirmed a long time ago. Both HDDVD and Bluray will downscale on analog- unless the publisher decides not to, but they enforced this so they'll make sure they use it - so millions of HDTV owners in the US are, in short, f***ed.

Actually, that's never been confirmed at all. Up until quite recently the specs or whatever you want to call it weren't finalized. There was a piece about it on ars when they DID settle on an official policy, and the policy is the studios themselves decide if they want to downsample or not. And several did announce they had no plans to do so.

 

[Sxotty]

Heh, cool, now I have something hard to throw in the face of all the drama queens who start screaming that the end is nigh every time HDCP gets brought up.

Wow now we can buy sony movies, on sony's propietary format. Woopdee frikin doo.

If all the studios promised this then one wonders WTF did they need it in there for in the first place.

Nevertheless I am happy since my monitor defintely ain't hdcp. By the time I buy a HDTV though it will have all the necesary bells and whistles, but it is a dissapointment nevertheless to me that they have been so anal about their protection schemes.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

It's only because they don't want to kill uptake of next-gen DVD by effectively forcing someone who wants a new player and is willing to get BR for future use to upgrade the whole of their AV chain at the same time to get benefit.

Companies like Sony also don't want to get the bad publicity associated with implementing this kind of consumer unfriendly tech that gives the customer no benefit from their new purchases.

No doubt there are intentions to use this flag at some point in the future as many of those companies that helped develop the standard are the same ones issuing content. They wouldn't have put the flag in if they didn't have scenarios where they wanted to use it.

 

[kyleb]

Wow now we can buy sony movies, on sony's propietary format. Woopdee frikin doo.

If all the studios promised this then one wonders WTF did they need it in there for in the first place.

All the studios didn't promise, some would rather protect their content and others would rather make it more accessible to a larger audience, hence the standards have been set to alow for both. Reguardless, my point is that those who have been arguing that Blu-ray devices would be useless for anything but HDCP displays were pulling a Chicken Little act.

 

[NANOTEC]

Reguardless, my point is that those who have been arguing that Blu-ray devices would be useless for anything but HDCP displays were pulling a Chicken Little act.

Well if you want to be able to watch all BR movies from all the studios, this announcement if true doesn't really matter much.

 

[randycat99]

Are you anticipating that all other BR publishers will chance the potential of prematurely limiting sales volume for their product by employing hdcp locks, to the contrary of Sony's strategic policy? If they are to do that, what is the point of even backing BR, if you are going to do something that will limit uptake right out of the gate?

It seems like a fairly obvious strategy to bend over backwards a little to ensure the most robust launch/debut as possible. That seems to be the road Sony is taking. I don't see why the rest of the industry would suddenly do an about-face to that strategy at their own peril. It's better in the long run to risk some initial release titles to potential piracy (hdcp-free mode) in order to maximize/nurture the market now. Then in another 5 years or so (where the userbase of hdcp-ready TV's have grown considerably), the possibility for hdcp-locked BR discs for new release titles can be revisited. Even then, it's not certain they would employ an hdcp policy, unless they need to. Whether they need to or not will depend on the state of BR piracy at that point in time. There's no need to expose hdcp to hacking before the time it is really needed. If piracy losses are "minor", they may wait. If piracy losses are on a significant rise, then they pull out the "big guns" to slow it down for a little longer. It would be a similar strategy to how/when antibiotics are issued to combat bacterial infections. You don't pull out the big guns right away, risking premature bacterial adaptation. You pull them out as the last resort, when all other lesser measures have been exhausted.

 

[NANOTEC]

From what I've heard Warner doesn't want full HD resolution through component and they're probaby the biggest studio of them all.

 

[randycat99]

So you went from "what you heard about Warner" to "all movies from all studios employing hdcp locks right out of the gate"?

What is "heard" is a different matter from what will be done to serve a business priority. Either way, we won't know what studio xyz plans to do with BR until they actually do it. So it is very "chicken little alarmist" to make blanket statements asserting everybody except Sony will be lowering the boom on hdcp BR. Maybe it will happen, maybe not. I've already laid out a few points where it is in their best interests not to do it (at least, not right away). Otherwise, it is a pretty big waste of effort to bother supporting BR from the start, if you are going to mandate a handicap right from the start. It just makes no sense, imo.

 

[NANOTEC]

So you went from "what you heard about Warner" to "all movies from all studios employing hdcp locks right out of the gate"?

Stop twisting what people said to suit your own strawman argument. Nobody said all studios will not allow full HD resolution output through component. What was said was that just because one studio have hinted at allowing HD resolution through component doesn't mean much with respect to the rest of the studios. In fact it's not even surprising considering HD MPEG2 through component have been allowed since the inception of D-VHS and guess what? SONY plans on releasing BR movies in...gasp...MPEG2!

What is "heard" is a different matter from what will be done to serve a business priority.

Yeah and I guess Warner's decision has nothing to do with business?

Either way, we won't know what studio xyz plans to do with BR until they actually do it.

No duh..thanks for pointing to the obvious "It won't happen until it happens."

So it is very "chicken little alarmist" to make blanket statements asserting everybody except Sony will be lowering the boom on hdcp BR.

And the real chicken alarmist is the one who resorts to twisting peoples words around to prop up a scarecrow to argue with.

Maybe it will happen, maybe not. I've already laid out a few points where it is in their best interests not to do it (at least, not right away). Otherwise, it is a pretty big waste of effort to bother supporting BR from the start, if you are going to mandate a handicap right from the start. It just makes no sense, imo.

Again considering we're talking about lower quality MPEG2 it's not really a surpise SONY will allow it. It's not that great of a thing either. When SONY and other studios allow HD VC-1 through component then we can talk.

 

[randycat99]

Well if you want to be able to watch all BR movies from all the studios, this announcement if true doesn't really matter much.

Not much twisting going on here. Your meaning is quite clear in the quote above. Clearly you are trying to cast a gloom that Sony would be the only one in the entire industry to not lock properties with hdcp, when you really have no idea what the industry response will be. If it is to follow suit with Sony's lead, then the announcement is quite significant. We won't know for sure until that ground is actually traversed. In the meantime, there is no need to be overly positive or negative on the matter.

Mpeg2 is the reference standard, used well into the mastering chain. You won't make much ground attempting to pan it as "low quality". It's VC-1 that will need to establish itself as a competent codec. However, that is another discussion, altogether. Derailing this discussion into another codec debate will not help you.

 

[NANOTEC]

Mpeg2 is the reference standard, used well into the mastering chain. You won't make much ground attempting to pan it as "low quality". It's VC-1 that will need to establish itself as a competent codec. However, that is another discussion, altogether. Derailing this discussion into another codec debate will not help you.

Anyone who has seen the VC-1 encoded HD DVD demos Toshiba has been showing around the nation says otherwise. A quick visit to AVS Forums support this notion. SONY is using MPEG2 not because it provides better visuals than VC-1. Anyone who thinks otherwise is horribly uninformed or in denial. Again one studio hinting at allowing HD MPEG2 through component doesn't mean much considering Warner has said they won't allow it and considering D-VHS using inferior MPEG2 encoding has allowed it for years.

 

[randycat99]

The "D-VHS and mpeg2" issue has since been debunked in your absence, pc engine.

Regardless, mpeg2 (in its various incarnations) remains the standard by which movie properties filter down the chain to the consumer. It's a moot point, anyway, as BR can just as easily handle mpeg4 should "PQ issues" really become an issue.

Your argument is questionable when you assert that what one company says is "meaningless" when it comes to not using hdcp vs. what another one company says is highly indicative when it comes to using hdcp. You can't have it both ways. One company says they will, and one says they won't. Hence it could still go either way, when it comes to the rest of the industry. I have already laid out the points that suggest why it is in their benefit to go Sony's way, if they are to bother with BR in the first place. For all we know, the entire industry may follow Sony's lead and Warner's decision ends up being the odd man out. So they miss out on a "few" non-hdcp customers, while everyone else benefits across the table. Either they'll come around or people will eventually become hdcp-ready. It's not a question of "if" at that point- just when.

What this all comes down to, is the hdcp situation is otherwise an open field, and Sony's announcement is but one positive note of things to come. If industry follows rationally, your concern will have been utterly futile.

 

[NANOTEC]

http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/JVC_HM_DH3000U_D_Theater/4514-6476_16-20149605.html

Time to face reality...

 

[randycat99]

...and...what is your point?