Sony may release only one version of PS3?

Pipo:

I am not going to argue what's expected and what not - "real world" performance is rarely a big factor with console sales - it's about market's perception. PS3 is launching later, so the average joe is going to use the same argument Microsoft stuffed down their throat when they marketed Xbox that launched a year later. Sony is already marketing their product as the next thing, not simply version 1.5. If Sony is right or not is really not relevant. Look around and take other less tech-orientated boards as reference: it is market perception that PS3 will hold a technlogical edge - just as it was market perception that PS2 would be more powerful than Dreamcast. Was it true? Arguable on many fronts, yet market perception was that what counted in the end.

Then you also have to factor in that PS3 will be perhaps be launching 4 months later - that's right, not 6 or 8 or 12 - but 4 months if Sony is able to launch in march of 2006 (Xbox360 in November this year). How much of an advantage will 4 months yield in terms of software lineup and quality? I'd say next to none - simply because dev kits are out now in roughly the same state of either console. The only difference is, Xbox360 is launching early which will most likely result in rushed software, which isn't much different than PS2's launch or ANY console that launches first. Already now, it seems (can't back this up but I'd assume it's fairly common-sense) that PS3 is already receiving much more support since it's likely to be the dominant console again. This will result in not only hype, but also potentially more software - software that is a huge factor in determin how well a console fares.

Also, don't expect to have a big launch lineup come November. If Sony does launch PS3 in March 2006 (4 months later), expect a few high profile games to be pushed back a few months to counter the PS3 launch. Better to go head to head with quality software than have nothing but a few titles here and there coming out later. Having that said, I wouldn't be surprised if the most anticipated software like PGR3 and a few others are held back until March. (Speculation on my part)

2nd generation software all sounds well and good - but in reality, both consoles have a huge learning curve and as I already said, both have devkits right outthere and in roughly the same state as well. I'd say Xb360 might have an advantage thanks to better tools if at all - but how much will that matter if the developers need to rush their software to meet the earlier launch? I'd say at the time PS3 launches (if that's March 2006) - both will be running on a lot of steam (hype) and definately what could be considered 1st generation software and that's not going to change that quick.

Anyway, I don't really expect the "more powerful" argument to play a big deciding factor anyway - it's something the fan outthere likes to bring up to justify his choice of product of being the better one - but it's usually more a case of bias and brand-recognition that plays a big role. Fans of this generations software will likely be looking out on which console their beloved franchises will end up before making any decision on which one to buy. And knowing PS3 is around the corner - being "blown away" by seeing the graphics of the first next-gen console will always spark the perception "PS3 will be as powerful as well or even better because it's coming out later - only another 4 monts!".

my 2 cents.
 
it's the old Saturn v PS1 and Dreamcast v PS2 all over again...but hey, MS have the non earning 4 year age group in their corner...forget where the real money (and mass market) is.
 
That's a lot of stuff... ;)

Phil said:
I am not going to argue what's expected and what not - "real world" performance is rarely a big factor with console sales - it's about market's perception.

Agreed.

...it is market perception that PS3 will hold a technlogical edge - just as it was market perception that PS2 would be more powerful than Dreamcast.

Probably. If the games don't do the job, MS has a lot of explaining/marketing to do to at the very least...

Then you also have to factor in that PS3 will be perhaps be launching 4 months later - that's right, not 6 or 8 or 12 - but 4 months if Sony is able to launch in march of 2006 (Xbox360 in November this year). How much of an advantage will 4 months yield in terms of software lineup and quality?

That's quite a big 'perhaps'. Even if they'll make it, I can't see it happen worldwide... IMO.

About the lineup and quality, we'll have to wait and see. It's not like Sony has final kits up and running at this point in time too.

On the other hand, four months extra on final (or even beta) kits will make quite a difference.

Having that said, I wouldn't be surprised if the most anticipated software like PGR3 and a few others are held back until March.

No way. MS knows the importance of the launch lineup.

... both have devkits right outthere and in roughly the same state as well. I'd say Xb360 might have an advantage thanks to better tools if at all - but how much will that matter if the developers need to rush their software to meet the earlier launch?

Disagreed. The 360 beta kits are near final (hardware is there). The Sony kits are alpha (no final GPU etc). That's a big dfference, but Sony has more time. As for tools, MS should have an advantage there.

As for rushing, that's common with all console launches. PS3's won't be different.

Fans of this generations software will likely be looking out on which console their beloved franchises will end up before making any decision on which one to buy. And knowing PS3 is around the corner - being "blown away" by seeing the graphics of the first next-gen console will always spark the perception "PS3 will be as powerful as well or even better because it's coming out later - only another 4 monts!".

We'll see. Just as we'll see what Sony will do with the price and what kind of effect that will have... :)
 
Calavaro said:
1st. Nowhere in there did I say *I*
It's implied in your statement. It's entirely from your personal viewpoint and not based on anything relating to market research. Just: "1 version is enough."
Calavaro said:
2nd. How would anyone know what requirements would be needed for any given game?
This has nothing really to do with 2 SKUs. It has more to do with whether or not a hard drive will be required to play games. So far, none require it. When one does, I'm presuming it will be targetted at the market segment that would have bought the Xbox 360, not the core, or the market that doesn't mind buying a hard drive. For example, Final Fantasy fans.
It is a very delicate line, it could potentially backfire for the consumer, the developer of games, and ultimately Microsoft if the "fully featured" 360 has less games developed for it. (by that I mean, not taking advantage of the addons as they would if there was 1 version only)
You keep calling it "fully featured" as if this is actually an attribute of the Xbox 360. Please, list out the features that the Xbox 360 core is missing. In fact, 99% of all games will run on Xbox 360 core (I'm presuming that FF11 will require the hard drive). Maybe there will be a couple more games that requires the hard drive down the road. For this reason--aside from some funny numbers game (it's just an extra 60, so with another game your spending just as much!)--you believe that 2 SKUs is a bad idea.
Sega made similar mistakes with the CD and 32X addon for the Genesis/MegaDrive just before launching the Saturn. People were confused, and simply stayed away. Having the PS1 lauched around the same time made the choice very very easy indeed.
Now you're switching the debate to talk about whether add-ons are good or not. It has nothing to do with a 2 SKU approach.

.Sis
 
eb said:
this should read "I know 2 muppets who think they'll save 100 bucks, but won't because they'll need a memory card and then why bother 'saving' 60 bucks because they'll also get more saving space than they could ever use, a wireless controller and the fact it'll hold its value"
Don't be rude. That extra 60 dollars is a game. So, for the same price of an Xbox 360, someone I know can buy the core unit, a memory card, and a game. Why is this a personal affront to so many hard core gamers?

.Sis
 
pipo said:
Disagreed. The 360 beta kits are near final (hardware is there). The Sony kits are alpha (no final GPU etc). That's a big dfference, but Sony has more time. As for tools, MS should have an advantage there.

Yeah but everyone should know that the PS3 alpha kit was further along in development than MS's X360 alpha kit. That should effect the launch games with the PS3 in some form.
 
london-boy said:
Reading this thread it almost feels like people are already thinking that releasing 2 version of the same console at launch is "the norm" and that "releasing only one version of a console" is some kind of special case! :|
I don't know that I'd call it "the norm" but more of "what's the big deal?" If you don't want the Xbox 360 core, don't buy it. If you think the package deal is better, buy it. But most of the counter arguments seems to be "It'll confuse consumers", "It's not necessary", "The core isn't as good a deal." I don't see the validity of these arguments, and they feel like personal opinions not really based on anything other than "that's what I think."

.Sis
 
mckmas8808 said:
Yeah but everyone should know that the PS3 alpha kit was further along in development than MS's X360 alpha kit. That should effect the launch games with the PS3 in some form.

The alpha kit will probably affect the launch games in some sort but comparing the two alpha kits is like comparing two console by using a racing game on one platform and a FPS on another. It doesn't mean anything since they are so different. Whats going to matter more is the time developers get on beta/final hardware, not alpha.
 
mckmas8808 said:
Yeah but everyone should know that the PS3 alpha kit was further along in development than MS's X360 alpha kit. That should effect the launch games with the PS3 in some form.

Yes but at the cost of there being very few of them.
MS got alpha kits out in 10,000's, Sony had alpha kits out in 100's.
It's just a different strategy, the same was true for PS2 in it's day, even alpha kits were pretty close to what you were going to get, they were just incredibly rare.

Personally I'd prefer the available in quantity and close to final hardware version of alpha hardware, but I think I'll be left wanting on that one.
 
london-boy said:
Reading this thread it almost feels like people are already thinking that releasing 2 version of the same console at launch is "the norm" and that "releasing only one version of a console" is some kind of special case! :|

yes.... you are right..... what were you talking about?
 
ERP said:
Yes but at the cost of there being very few of them.
MS got alpha kits out in 10,000's, Sony had alpha kits out in 100's.
It's just a different strategy, the same was true for PS2 in it's day, even alpha kits were pretty close to what you were going to get, they were just incredibly rare.

Personally I'd prefer the available in quantity and close to final hardware version of alpha hardware, but I think I'll be left wanting on that one.

On top of that, the 360 alpha kits have been out for ages...
 
There is something big that the naysayers are missing: Having a $299 system will hamper Sony's ability to spur sales by dropping the $399 PS3 to $299 later on. It means that while MS will not likely drop their system prices much faster than normal. ie. nothing in year one, $100 in year two, $50 in year three, $50 in year 4 or 5, Sony might be forced to drop their prices prematurely and therefore lose money.

Sony can't very well let MS have a $199 system on the shelves in 2007 when they are still selling the PS3 at $299. It means that MS can have a system that is ALWAYS $100 cheaper than anything Sony can do. In other words, it will take Sony 3 years to get to $199 instead of 2 for MS. This will have a large impact on sales, unless the PS brand is so powerful that people are willing to pay the $100 premium. Some will, but some won't and this is why MS will gain marketshare this generation.
 
Johnny Awesome said:
. It means that MS can have a system that is ALWAYS $100 cheaper than anything Sony can do. In other words, it will take Sony 3 years to get to $199 instead of 2 for MS. This will have a large impact on sales, unless the PS brand is so powerful that people are willing to pay the $100 premium. Some will, but some won't and this is why MS will gain marketshare this generation.

Of course! Which once again is why Sony is bashing the core version as incomplete and confusing instead of bashing the Premium Bundle as expensive and containing useless features.

Hell, the PS3 isn't going to include a HDD. If they were launching at $299, wouldn't they be pointing and laughing at the Premium bundle, saying people are overpaying for useless hardware (HDD), old technology (DVD), and wireless controllers that should have come standard?

But PS3 isn't launching at $299, they're launching closer to the actual price of the Premium so they can't say that it's too expensive. Only that the Core sku is cheap or incomplete.

And as somebody mentioned in this thread, but it was quickly ignored, is that the majority of games released at the PS3 launch will be ports! That's the reason why the PS3 should have a better launch library than the X360 will. Because all those games available at the X360 launch and afterwards that are cross-platform will be available at launch for the PS3! So PS3 gets all their launch exclusives, plus the cross platform games that developers have been working on to get ready for the X360.

The problem for Sony is that all those cross platform games are going to look the same on the PS3 as they do on the X360. Which means at that point, you've got the option of buying a $299 system that has games that look just as good as the PS3's.
 
Johnny Awesome said:
Sony can't very well let MS have a $199 system on the shelves in 2007 when they are still selling the PS3 at $299. It means that MS can have a system that is ALWAYS $100 cheaper than anything Sony can do. In other words, it will take Sony 3 years to get to $199 instead of 2 for MS. This will have a large impact on sales, unless the PS brand is so powerful that people are willing to pay the $100 premium. Some will, but some won't and this is why MS will gain marketshare this generation.


I guess thats why Nintendo sold the most this gen. Oh what did you say? *Listens to inner thoughts* Oh thats right that price advantage didn't help the GC. Well I'm sorry Johnny you did all the typing for nothing.
 
Just a little thing: it may not seem too important right now, but an MCE does not require any additional accessories. At most, they would use an component or VGA adaptor. I know it's not likely, but if MC ever gains success, a cheap, no-frills X360 would be a handy option.
 
mckmas8808 said:
I guess thats why Nintendo sold the most this gen. Oh what did you say? *Listens to inner thoughts* Oh thats right that price advantage didn't help the GC. Well I'm sorry Johnny you did all the typing for nothing.

Price did help Nintendo. Without the price advantage Cube would probably have faired even worse than it did, mainly because it didn't have the games that casual gamers wanted to play. No GTA, no Halo, no driving games (GT, PGR), no big 3D fighters, etc...

Just because pricing strategy didn't work wonders for a company without the right games mix does not mean that it won't work well for one that does. You have to look at the big picture.
 
Johnny Awesome said:
Price did help Nintendo. Without the price advantage Cube would probably have faired even worse than it did, mainly because it didn't have the games that casual gamers wanted to play. No GTA, no Halo, no driving games (GT, PGR), no big 3D fighters, etc...

Just because pricing strategy didn't work wonders for a company without the right games mix does not mean that it won't work well for one that does. You have to look at the big picture.

But the pricing did create some misconception that Gamecube is inferior machine compared to PS2 and Xbox...price didn't really help as Nintendo actually thought it would do..because gamecube never met its initial expectation since it was expected to mob the floor with Xbox. If GC was made by company other than Nintendo, then it would have been miserable failure. Plus, I definitely don't think XB360 will be $100 cheaper than PS3 with any version, because that kind of price difference is good enough to create misconception and that is one of the last thing that MS want..because once you get the misconception that you got inferior machine, you won't be able to recover from it.
 
JasonLD said:
Plus, I definitely don't think XB360 will be $100 cheaper than PS3 with any version, because that kind of price difference is good enough to create misconception and that is one of the last thing that MS want..because once you get the misconception that you got inferior machine, you won't be able to recover from it.

True. Would MS even want to drop the core pack price to $199 in 2007? Wouldn't they actually want to make some kind of money from hardware sometime in life? Come on man think about it.
 
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