Not PS+ but Sony is considering Online Pass (for used games):
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...online-pass-equivalent-for-first-party-titles
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...online-pass-equivalent-for-first-party-titles
Sony joins EA and Ubisoft in considering limitations on used games
- Thread starter patsu
- Start date
Gradthrawn
Veteran
I take issue with the fact that it punishes those of us with multiple consoles in a household (different people, different PSN accounts) or that take games over to other's homes to play. It also eliminates just loaning games to others (w/o giving someone your PSN ID and login info to play as, not going to happen). It effectively limits the flexibility of the title for those that own it and don't even plan on trading it in. Then again, it's the same situation with downloadable games (PSN). Although, I don't pay $60 for those titles, either. There needs to be a method to deactivate the online portion of those titles for one's PSN ID, and re-activate for someone else.
And quite frankly, the whole premise behind it is rather ridiculous. Used game sales don't increase the total number of users online. One copy sold, handed off to 15 different people, is still just one person that's going to be online at any given time using that copy. One could argue that by being transferred to a new owner, the new owner's interest and online activity level would be higher than the previous owner who has already played the titled and grown bored of it. But the total potential number of users online does not change.
My comments are going off the assumption that online play is tied to PSN ID.
This whole "Pay for online content" is rediculous!!
I've already created a solution to get around this that if everyone followed would force the studios to reconsider.
Simply put, a new user ID is created for every game you purchase that is affected by this. When you sell the game you let Gamestop or whoever know that the game comes with a clear online ID that allows them to play online without the fee. The difference is you don't get your massive trophy collection but you and anyone else who buys used games doesn't waste $10. That user ID travels with the game and these companies really wouldn't know the difference.
These are not pirated games that the studios are losing money on, why should they be able to profit from USED games. Should Universal Studios get a cut if I sell my copy of Scorpion King to my friend?
What these companies are effectively saying is this.
"We think our game didn't sell so well because others are buying used copies of the game instead of buying it retail and we are losing money"
When in affect this is what has happened:
"Our game wasn't as good as we thought it was going to be, many people that did buy it are not keeping it and selling it used to others because they don't believe it is worth keeping"
GTA sold gangbusters, Madden sells like hot cakes, Red Dead Redemption sold like crazy and guess what...people still bought used copies!! If used copies of your game are flooding the market then maybe you need to find out why nobody wants to keep your game!!!
I've already created a solution to get around this that if everyone followed would force the studios to reconsider.
Simply put, a new user ID is created for every game you purchase that is affected by this. When you sell the game you let Gamestop or whoever know that the game comes with a clear online ID that allows them to play online without the fee. The difference is you don't get your massive trophy collection but you and anyone else who buys used games doesn't waste $10. That user ID travels with the game and these companies really wouldn't know the difference.
These are not pirated games that the studios are losing money on, why should they be able to profit from USED games. Should Universal Studios get a cut if I sell my copy of Scorpion King to my friend?
What these companies are effectively saying is this.
"We think our game didn't sell so well because others are buying used copies of the game instead of buying it retail and we are losing money"
When in affect this is what has happened:
"Our game wasn't as good as we thought it was going to be, many people that did buy it are not keeping it and selling it used to others because they don't believe it is worth keeping"
GTA sold gangbusters, Madden sells like hot cakes, Red Dead Redemption sold like crazy and guess what...people still bought used copies!! If used copies of your game are flooding the market then maybe you need to find out why nobody wants to keep your game!!!
corduroygt
Banned
You should all thank Microsoft for bringing the "pay for online" paradigm upon us. Get ready for Sony exempting PSN+ users from paying the online fee, so they'd get more subscriptions too.
If you want PSN to improve, then Sony may need the extra cushion for expansion ahead of the anticipated demand. They need to keep spares running, and the overall infrastructure is not cheap.
Dregun, in your scheme above, who pays for the travelling user id ? since you will be playing in parallel with your own id.
The problem is loaning game. That's what friends are for. Under this scheme, that friendship costs $10 per game.
Perhaps marking your friend's PS3 as one of your 5 PS3 works. That's what I do on my good friend's PS3. He bought it for Blu-ray. My son plays on his PS3 when we visit. So far (because of us), he bought 2 PSN games for his nephews but wouldn't generally touch gaming except MotorStorm.
EDIT:
Gah, don't start pointing fingers at them for no reason. This is strictly Sony "internal" affairs.
Dregun, in your scheme above, who pays for the travelling user id ? since you will be playing in parallel with your own id.
The problem is loaning game. That's what friends are for. Under this scheme, that friendship costs $10 per game.
Perhaps marking your friend's PS3 as one of your 5 PS3 works. That's what I do on my good friend's PS3. He bought it for Blu-ray. My son plays on his PS3 when we visit. So far (because of us), he bought 2 PSN games for his nephews but wouldn't generally touch gaming except MotorStorm.
EDIT:
Gah, don't start pointing fingers at them for no reason. This is strictly Sony "internal" affairs.
That wouldn't work for XBLive! where you need a paying account!
Unlike any other used goods, which naturally devalue with use, wear and tear, digital goods preserve their experience. So, for example, if you buy a used car, the manufacturer sees none of that money, but you get a lesser experience than if you bought new, meaning there's the incentive to buy new. If you buy an IKEA armchair second hand, it'll have a bit of wear, the foam fillings won't be as plumped, and it will not be as nice an experience as buying new. Used goods tend to have a down side that ways against the cost advantage.
Games don't, unless you obsess about the quality of the case and manual. You can get exactly the same game experience buying a game second hand for $15 as buying it new for $60, in which case where is the incentive to buy new? What's the upside? And if your industry is struggling, those lost sales will be far more noticeable than second-hand sales of furniture are going to be to IKEA.
It clearly doesn't work like that. Why keep Valkyria Chronicles or Uncharted if you're never going to play them again? Selling them on isn't a reflection of the game's value, just it's value to you, and single player adventures typically have very little after they've been completed. That's one of the reasons why every game is seeking to add an online multiplayer aspect, I guess.
Also bear in mind a lot of ill feeling is generated by the BnM stores pushing used games at obscene profit per unit. They can resell the game several times, making $10 every sale. How come the middleman gets repeat revenue whereas the creators don't? If you were in the creators position, would you be happy with that, or would you like a piece of that second-hand sales money?
Yes, that's how it should be following Sony's current PSN philosophy. Having to pay to view from another PS3 would be stupid - we first experienced Demon's Soul when a friend bought it and we tried it at a different friend's house. That sort of exposure helps sell titles.The problem is loaning game. That's what friends are for. Under this scheme, that friendship costs $10.
Perhaps marking your friend's PS3 as one of your 5 PS3 works.
deathindustrial
Regular
For every used copy of a recent blockbuster they make good money on they also get to sit on who knows how many copies of unwanted shelf filler. I am not crying for Gamestop but any sort of used media business has a lot of risk, just ask your local music retailer.
That said, I would consider it a fair trade if all games were download only *and* prices went down due to the cutting out of one middle man. The walk over to the PS3 to pop in a different disc is seeming longer and longer every day.
=)
Cheers
Aye but the DD scene entails a different value chain. In the extreme model, no more GameStop, and may be pay more for ISP every month.
For used games sales, strictly speaking, if it's only for PSN access, it should be cheaper. For $10, they may be pulling in publisher fees for used game sales as well.
For used games sales, strictly speaking, if it's only for PSN access, it should be cheaper. For $10, they may be pulling in publisher fees for used game sales as well.
From this interview with Andrew House
So that's hopefully something about PSN prices, though we don't know what.
Milking the cow so much it hurts... and how? kill the used games scene like this and the online part of ANY game will hurt since the amount of players online will be reduced. Fewer active players, less gonna care and the DLC (that may even be on the disc) will get less sales since the game isn´t alive...
I get SO angry about these schemes, make money with content and great games, not by taxing us. argh!
I get SO angry about these schemes, make money with content and great games, not by taxing us. argh!
? - Nothing
Gradthrawn
Veteran
Which brings up a good point. If you can't beat them, join them! Offer your own system holder trade in program. Trade in games for XBL or PSN "points" or something like that. Keep the point system transparent (online) and have a mail in program to make the exchanges.
That's possibly the most sensible solution yet! Of course that'd be painful competition with the BnM stores. Maybe then they'd come up with a compromise with $5 going to the publisher per resale or somesuch?
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