Sony Disable “Install Other OS” in firmware (v3.21)

[Shifty Geezer]

Why not? By law, they have to give a partial refund.

I'm not sure they do though. "Fit for purpose" - what was the purpose of buying the console? To play movies and video games? It still works. The law isn't clear, meaning court action is required. I guess whoever handled the Amazon case wasn't really clued up on what was going on, and they'll change their approach now. If it were my store being asked for a refund, I'd want some sort of proof that they were using Linux.

 

[dobwal]

For this to become a full fledged problem lies with the ability to get CFW on the PS3 Slims. If Sony removed the ability to expose Linux in the Slims then at most piracy will be limited to used PS3 fats.

 

[ShadowRunner]

I'm not sure they do though. "Fit for purpose" - what was the purpose of buying the console? To play movies and video games? It still works. The law isn't clear, meaning court action is required. I guess whoever handled the Amazon case wasn't really clued up on what was going on, and they'll change their approach now. If it were my store being asked for a refund, I'd want some sort of proof that they were using Linux.

Doesnt really matter if they were using linux, it would be still fit for that purpose if they dont upgrade their firmware. The user chooses whether to upgrade and thus disable the feature or not.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That's another point that could be argued. However if you bought the console to play games and run Linux, you would have been scuppered with FW3.2. It's not an automatic point for PS3 owners though, and companies shouldn't be paying out to every owner.

 

[eastmen]

Doesnt really matter if they were using linux, it would be still fit for that purpose if they dont upgrade their firmware. The user chooses whether to upgrade and thus disable the feature or not.

Either way sony is stoping you from using a feature they claimed was part of the ps3 and you were using for years at this point.

There really is no choice with updating firmware if you play games .On one hand your damned if you upgrade and wanted to use linux for obvious reasons. If you don't upgrade you can't play games that need newer firmwares and you may loose out on bluray playback ability.

 

[ShadowRunner]

http://www.thinq.co.uk/news/2010/4/9/sony-says-sorry-for-other-os-take-down/

Sony: Users do have the choice whether to install the firmware upgrade and this is clearly explained to them at the time the firmware upgrade is made available for installation. Furthermore our terms and conditions clearly state that we have the right to revise the PS3's settings and features in order to prevent access to unauthorised or pirated content.

If it does say this in th T&Cs then i think Sony are within thier rite to do so. It was always clear from the start linux would be disabled if it comprimised he system. The big mistake sony made was including linux support in the first place, its a shame this has to be the case though because it is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all IMO.

 

[specwarGP2]

They can put whatever they want in a manual, but that doesn't change EU Law.

Do people in urope get a refund of DRM media that no longer work too?

 

[eastmen]

http://www.thinq.co.uk/news/2010/4/9/sony-says-sorry-for-other-os-take-down/



If it does say this in th T&Cs then i think Sony are within thier rite to do so. It was always clear from the start linux would be disabled if it comprimised he system. The big mistake sony made was including linux support in the first place, its a shame this has to be the case though because it is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all IMO.

What happens when you buy a game that simply wont work without the new firmware ?

Basicly sony is saying you don't need to upgrade the firmware but we will make your ps3 useless as a gaming machine from here on out.

 

[Kittonwy]

What happens when you buy a game that simply wont work without the new firmware ?

Basicly sony is saying you don't need to upgrade the firmware but we will make your ps3 useless as a gaming machine from here on out.

The point is if you're adamant on hacking the machine through linux then it's likely that you probably aren't interested in buying games in the first place, most people who play games don't give a crap about Linux so 99% of their paying customers won't be impacted, either way they gave the user a choice in whether they want to install the firmware and continue to play games or not install the firmware in which case you still have access to otherOS. It's likely that they have an idea very very few people will use linux anyway so the impact is negligible.

 

[Kittonwy]

That's another point that could be argued. However if you bought the console to play games and run Linux, you would have been scuppered with FW3.2. It's not an automatic point for PS3 owners though, and companies shouldn't be paying out to every owner.

It's not a realistic scenario and while I'm sure a very small minority actually does this, if someone bought a PS3 to use linux only they won't be impacted and if they're just out to hack the machine, they won't download the update anyway. The update serves as a way of closing the backdoor so even if eventually hackers find a way to hack the machine which opens the door for piracy, the hack won't work with the majority of fats out there that have the update and they've basically taken away the majority of fats from pirates in terms of potential customers, basically making it pointless for pirates to bother. At the end of the day CFW does more harm than good and it's probably for the best that Sony does whatever it takes to crush it.

 

[-tkf-]

What happens when you buy a game that simply wont work without the new firmware ?

Basicly sony is saying you don't need to upgrade the firmware but we will make your ps3 useless as a gaming machine from here on out.

I am sure you get a refund on your game.

 

[ShadowRunner]

What happens when you buy a game that simply wont work without the new firmware ?

Basicly sony is saying you don't need to upgrade the firmware but we will make your ps3 useless as a gaming machine from here on out.

Thats not the point. If you agree to the T&Cs when you buy the console, and those T&Cs state that a software feature may be subject to change if security is comprimised then you were told about this at point of purchase. You either agree to the T&Cs or you return the device within the 14day cool off period for full refund. In fact the T&Cs are most likely online for all to read before the point of purchase.

At the point of sale it is advertised that software features may change due to security concerns then the console is still fit for purpose as advertised at point of purchase.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That's a valid argument. However, you cannot T&C your way out of sane responsibilities. eg. Sony can't say, 'we are entitled to, at any point, send a signal to your console blowing it up causing you to need a new purchase.' Even agreeing to those T&Cs, they'd be considered unfair in a court of law.

I'm sure the lawyers will be able to drag this one out for years...

 

[flynn]

That's a valid argument. However, you cannot T&C your way out of sane responsibilities. eg. Sony can't say, 'we are entitled to, at any point, send a signal to your console blowing it up causing you to need a new purchase.' Even agreeing to those T&Cs, they'd be considered unfair in a court of law.

I'm sure the lawyers will be able to drag this one out for years...

Has anybody sued Microsoft over banned/crippled xboxes? I don't think it will be any different in Sony's case.

I doubt geohot will be so stupid to release a CFW under his name as it's most likely a case of (C) infringement.

The only outcome of this will be even tighter DRM on the PS4 and the next Xbox.

 

[eastmen]

Has anybody sued Microsoft over banned/crippled xboxes? I don't think it will be any different in Sony's case.

I doubt geohot will be so stupid to release a CFW under his name as it's most likely a case of (C) infringement.

The only outcome of this will be even tighter DRM on the PS4 and the next Xbox.

I'm pretty sure they did sue. Aside from that Xbox live is a service you pay for and can be banned from at any time. Those hacked systems still play games just fine

Also Geohot seems to have hacked the ipad

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/10/ipad-jailbreak-thanks-geohot/

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Has anybody sued Microsoft over banned/crippled xboxes? I don't think it will be any different in Sony's case.

1) The boxesd still work. People are only banned from the service. 2) Those people banned were banned for their actions, whereas in this case people have had their services taken from them for doing absolutely nothing. What have I done to warrant Sony removing my Linux from my PS3?

I don't think contract law is ever clear cut, and a ruling could go either way as both sides are valid.

 

[corduroygt]

1) The boxesd still work.

Just like the Linux "feature" taken away, the install to HDD feature along with a couple other things are taken away from the modded xboxes.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Those features were added after the console was bought, no? Is there anything which was a feature at sale time for which someone may have bought the XB360 which is removed? And even if so, point 2 kinda mitigates the argument anyway.

 

[-tkf-]

Those features were added after the console was bought, no? Is there anything which was a feature at sale time for which someone may have bought the XB360 which is removed? And even if so, point 2 kinda mitigates the argument anyway.

I found a Silver Bullet, Blu-Ray, if sony doesn´t upgrade firmware then at some point there may be a Blu-Ray that isn´t compatible. That would be a bigger issue since the PS3 is a Blu-Ray player and is and should be updated.

Besides that, i hope that laws in the future will be better in protecting the buyers of such a system against cheaters, and their by making it possible for manufactures to ban and nuke consoles.

 

[specwarGP2]

That's a valid argument. However, you cannot T&C your way out of sane responsibilities. eg. Sony can't say, 'we are entitled to, at any point, send a signal to your console blowing it up causing you to need a new purchase.' Even agreeing to those T&Cs, they'd be considered unfair in a court of law.

I'm sure the lawyers will be able to drag this one out for years...

But Sony isn't doing that. You need to voluntarily install the update. Furthermore, a non-updated console is still perfectly functional. It can still play games. Now if future games don't work with it, well there was no guarantee ever made by Sony that it would work with future games or services.