Should Sony have waited with PS4 Pro?

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But that couldn't happen as Sony was working on the update for VR/4K and MS wasn't planning an update at all from what we can see...
Sarcasm?
These decisions to manufacturer new consoles aren't made lightly. There are significant due process with budgeting and financial gating before you make an announcement. Considering how MS is organized there is a lot more rigor for XBOX to have items signed off by MS than it would be for SCE.
 
I think in light of what Scorpio is, no . No they shouldn't have.
This mid gen is still going to be dominated by 1080p not 4k, that alone removes a lot of scorpio's advantages because they are CPU bound together.

I think having the pro on the market a year earlier then Scorpio is worth the performance deficit.

We see all these idea's above about manufacturing/costs being an issue with out any logic behind it. Hell the extra 4gb of memory on Scorpio alone will likely costs way more then the increase in PS4 pro's die size (assuming ~ 440mm sq die size).

This is assuming $5000 USD wafer cost, 0.1 cm/d rate on a ~21 x 21mm die (440mm sq). this would result in 77 good dies and 41 dies with defects, with the assumption that 1/2 the defects aren't terminal ( redundancy in sram arrays etc) then thats 97 usable dies. 97 usable dies is $51 usd a die. The same logic on 348mm leaves 112 good dies and 44 dies with defects so 136 usable dies so thats $36 a die. So PS4 pro's APU cost is likely $15 more then PS4's.

4 GB of GDDR5 ( i assume 7gbps) is more then that.

I think the idea with the PS4 pro is not to set the world on fire, after all you can end up upsetting people who bought into the relatively young PS4. The people who know about it and want it will buy it. Sony will continue to run bundles etc on regular/slim PS4's until they think they need to step up the marketing/offers to complete against Scorpio. This mid life cycle dance is more subtle then previous dances.


Wait, the Pro has a larger dies size than Scorpio? That could only be because it's on a 28nm process? Scorpio is 360mm^2 on 16nm. The thing is the Scorpio die should be similar in size to the Pro, because it's getting it's gains through mostly higher clocks. I googled PS4 pro die size, and I could not find it.

So the big cost differentiators I can think of are just 1) presumably more expensive cooling 2) and additional 4 GB GDDR 5 3) UHD Blu Ray drive

None of these is likely to be overly substantial. This will be more telling when we actually know Scorpio's price, as now it's all speculation.

Anyways it's pretty obvious to me the benefit of trumpeting most powerful is quite more valuable even if Scorpio costs $50-100 more which frankly is the most you're likely to see in the real world. See Ps4 vs Xbox One.

Scorpio can instantly assume the mantle of best console multiplats, that currently held by Ps4 pro. It's a big mantle. It means in theory, almost every single game is at least slightly better by default.

Heck PS4 Pro could be argued has felt like a damp squib from the start, people were underwhelmed because of Scorpio's specs shadow from day 1. Remember all the wishing and hoping Pro would get a spec upgrade just before release?

It does seem to me the companies have slightly different strategy, in that Sony has almost played down the Pro, looking at it strictly as a PS4 extension, where MS seems to be hyping Scorpio more, more flirting with the idea of a new generation.
 
Nah. I think Sony really had a view of where they wanted to go and so far the market supports them.
 
I might get a Pro at some point for the downsampling effect in VR games. That's basically it, though. I don't think the system's made much of an impact really. The fact that I've never seen as much as even a single unit in a store kinda hints at the fact that there's so little demand for it they don't even bother to restock. I don't think Scorpio is gonna set the world on fire either. Especially if MS doesn't start to invest in some games that aren't Gears or Halo or Forza once again.
 
Wait, the Pro has a larger dies size than Scorpio? That could only be because it's on a 28nm process? Scorpio is 360mm^2 on 16nm. The thing is the Scorpio die should be similar in size to the Pro, because it's getting it's gains through mostly higher clocks. I googled PS4 pro die size, and I could not find it.
Pixel counting gives me 310 mm2.
 
I might get a Pro at some point for the downsampling effect in VR games. That's basically it, though. I don't think the system's made much of an impact really. The fact that I've never seen as much as even a single unit in a store kinda hints at the fact that there's so little demand for it they don't even bother to restock. I don't think Scorpio is gonna set the world on fire either. Especially if MS doesn't start to invest in some games that aren't Gears or Halo or Forza once again.

Nothing wrong with Gears, Halo, Forza. There are some franchises that are significantly older, or have been around as long as these 3. They just needed a better Gears, Halo, Forza that introduced new things and things people wanted to play. They've got fully fleshed out universes and there are a lot of stories to tell, they've just made some major mis-steps with churning out the same type of game (of when they released) when they could have done more. ie Looking at Zelda.
 
Nothing wrong with Gears, Halo, Forza. There are some franchises that are significantly older, or have been around as long as these 3. They just needed a better Gears, Halo, Forza that introduced new things and things people wanted to play. They've got fully fleshed out universes and there are a lot of stories to tell, they've just made some major mis-steps with churning out the same type of game (of when they released) when they could have done more. ie Looking at Zelda.

This. There's nothing bad about MS releasing Forza/Gears/Halo on Xbox, they just need to step up their game and bring quality games in these series. Although Forza is already quality, playing FH3 last year was a blast. I didn't think too much about the new Gears and Halo though. But I also agree that they probably need to invest in some new IPs if they want to compete with Sony. It's not that only first party games sell consoles, it's the combination of having the option of playing the good first party games and third party games that made the Ps4 the success it is today.
 
Heck PS4 Pro could be argued has felt like a damp squib from the start, people were underwhelmed because of Scorpio's specs shadow from day 1. Remember all the wishing and hoping Pro would get a spec upgrade just before release?
I remember the 8.4Tf speculation which was actually the two concurrent operations at 4.2Tf. There will always been ridiculous speculation for unannounced hardware. In the Scorpio threads couldn't go more than a post of two before somebody how Zen was really quite possible, as was 16Gb RAM or an SSD was viable.

Clearly Pro is in greater demand than supply, which isn't ideal but which is still better them supply being greater than demand. Right now, people wanting Pro can't buy Scorpio so it remains a captive audience for Sony. You know exactly what you're getting with Pro, there are many unanswered questions for Scorpio.
 
So far coincidentally they've had the most powerful box at all times.

PS1 and PS2 werent. PS3 was the first console they had some advantage, only seen in a selection of first party games, and they ended 3rd in WW Sales.

There are various reasons that explain the position of Sony in the market, power may be one of them, but not the only one. If I had to list them I'd say (not in order):

  • Brand recognitizion
  • Attractive Price
  • Power
  • Friends ecosystem
  • Great exclusive games
  • Big Multiplaform Deals

I mean, this fall/winter, MS is going to be against:

1- Destiny 2 PS4 Bundle
2- Red Dead 2 PS4 Bundle
3- COD PS4 Bundle
4- BattleFront + Expansion PS4 Bundle

Plus all the ads, etc. It not just power.
 
PS1 and PS2 werent. PS3 was the first console they had some advantage, only seen in a selection of first party games, and they ended 3rd in WW Sales.

There are various reasons that explain the position of Sony in the market, power may be one of them, but not the only one. If I had to list them I'd say (not in order):

  • Brand recognitizion
  • Attractive Price
  • Power
  • Friends ecosystem
  • Great exclusive games
  • Big Multiplaform Deals

I mean, this fall/winter, MS is going to be against:

1- Destiny 2 PS4 Bundle
2- Red Dead 2 PS4 Bundle
3- COD PS4 Bundle
4- BattleFront + Expansion PS4 Bundle

Plus all the ads, etc. It not just power.

edit: snip
 
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It's actually the opposite. It's actually all about power as a draw. And what Sony is doing with 3P is aiming to counter it. All those bundles and exclusive content aren't by accident, it's specifically designed to thwart Scorpio's biggest advantage which will be it's 3P prowess.

These bundles aren't because of Scorpio, they are there because PlayStation continues to compete against Xbox. You think there weren't bundles before with third party software on day 1 of PS4's launch? I remember Battlefield and Watch Dogs (eventually) in additional to first party bundles like Killzone. They have always been bundles even when Sony has cheaper and more powerful. They are used because of perceived added value. Every decision in a console is about perceived value to the customer.

Your suggestion is nuts. :yep2:
 
These bundles aren't because of Scorpio, they are there because PlayStation continues to compete against Xbox. You think there weren't bundles before with third party software on day 1 of PS4's launch? I remember Battlefield and Watch Dogs (eventually) in additional to first party bundles like Killzone. They have always been bundles even when Sony has cheaper and more powerful. They are used because of perceived added value. Every decision in a console is about perceived value to the customer.

Your suggestion is nuts. :yep2:
Lol yea I see where I went wrong with what I wrote. Lemme re-vector: while I get that these are moves to compete against XBOX, it was poor on my behalf to refer to bundles when wanting to mean content. exclusive 3P content like the Destiny 2 Is very painful for some folks and the idea of missing out on another year of locked content could sway someone to keep their 3P on Sonys ecosystem.
 
I really don't get these arguments that Microsoft released Scorpio in response to PS4 Pro. Microsoft released Scorpio in response to Xbox One.
Because MS never talked about it before Sony's PS4 Neo rumors spread out ?
 
Lol yea I see where I went wrong with what I wrote. Lemme re-vector: while I get that these are moves to compete against XBOX, it was poor on my behalf to refer to bundles when wanting to mean content. exclusive 3P content like the Destiny 2 Is very painful for some folks and the idea of missing out on another year of locked content could sway someone to keep their 3P on Sonys ecosystem.

I would really like to see some market analysis which measures Activision/Bungie's exclusive profits vs. lost profits/damaging their reputation. I'm a D1 Destiny player on XBox and always loved their Halo games but Bungie's reputation in the XBox community took a deep dive with Destiny. How many old Bungie fans didn't buy Destiny in the first place than switching to PS4 or had enough of the BS and didn't pay for DLCs at all or not full price.
 
This. There's nothing bad about MS releasing Forza/Gears/Halo on Xbox, they just need to step up their game and bring quality games in these series. Although Forza is already quality, playing FH3 last year was a blast. I didn't think too much about the new Gears and Halo though. But I also agree that they probably need to invest in some new IPs if they want to compete with Sony. It's not that only first party games sell consoles, it's the combination of having the option of playing the good first party games and third party games that made the Ps4 the success it is today.

Who says there's anything bad about these franchises. Point is MS is gonna have a tough time convincing players who aren't already on board to invest into the Xbox ecosystem if the thing waiting on the horizon is just more of the same. If there was nothing else like it out there like in Zelda's case, then maybe. Big maybe that is. It's not like resting on its old laurels has been a phenomenally luctrative strategy for Nintendo as of late either. Unlike in Zelda's case, there's still plenty of quality shooters and racing games out there, though.
 
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