Doesnt matter. It is still something that I find annoying, waiting or not.
Should Sony have waited with PS4 Pro?
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In an interview Yoshida said they misjudged the demand for Pro. They said their error was because market research didn't predict correctly the number of NEW gamers buying a Pro, and that took them by surprise. This makes sense because most of their data must have come from marketing polls (easy to send to those with a PS account) but figuring out new buyers is difficult.
Slim is selling like hot cakes and isn't ever out of stock, so they really skewed their production towards Slim volume.
Slim is selling like hot cakes and isn't ever out of stock, so they really skewed their production towards Slim volume.
Well obviously demand is outpacing supply the question is why?
So either
1. not making much money on it, so not wanting to sell many compared to the normal ps4
2. difficult to manufacture
3. something else?
Personally I'm leaning towards #1, as theres nothing esp special in the ps4 pro's manufacturing I think
I agree. BUT if there is any such alternative, it'd probably be the likes of Nintendo, And Switch does appear to sell quite well so far.
IMO it's because of a fairly appealing "gimmick" this time (as opposed to one that did not appeal in Wii U) and neither do I think PS4/XBox will suffer from their iterative successors.
itsmydamnation
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I think in light of what Scorpio is, no . No they shouldn't have.
This mid gen is still going to be dominated by 1080p not 4k, that alone removes a lot of scorpio's advantages because they are CPU bound together.
I think having the pro on the market a year earlier then Scorpio is worth the performance deficit.
We see all these idea's above about manufacturing/costs being an issue with out any logic behind it. Hell the extra 4gb of memory on Scorpio alone will likely costs way more then the increase in PS4 pro's die size (assuming ~ 440mm sq die size).
This is assuming $5000 USD wafer cost, 0.1 cm/d rate on a ~21 x 21mm die (440mm sq). this would result in 77 good dies and 41 dies with defects, with the assumption that 1/2 the defects aren't terminal ( redundancy in sram arrays etc) then thats 97 usable dies. 97 usable dies is $51 usd a die. The same logic on 348mm leaves 112 good dies and 44 dies with defects so 136 usable dies so thats $36 a die. So PS4 pro's APU cost is likely $15 more then PS4's.
4 GB of GDDR5 ( i assume 7gbps) is more then that.
I think the idea with the PS4 pro is not to set the world on fire, after all you can end up upsetting people who bought into the relatively young PS4. The people who know about it and want it will buy it. Sony will continue to run bundles etc on regular/slim PS4's until they think they need to step up the marketing/offers to complete against Scorpio. This mid life cycle dance is more subtle then previous dances.
My answer is very simple. Competition-wise Sony shouldn't have waited because disposable income of console users is limited. So if you release a similar product, release it earlier. Those who bought PS4 Pro this year are less likely to buy Scorpio this year.
Microsoft was forced to reveal Scorpio last year even though they knew it would hurt Xbox One S sales. Its strategy is to trickle new info continuously, without giving the whole details to buy time and cover the late launch. The DF reveal is one of such attempts. See the change of the architecture in Scorpio, throwing out ESRAM and adopting a PS4-like architecture. If Microsoft had planned Scorpio when they designed Xbox One it wouldn't have happened.
Microsoft was forced to reveal Scorpio last year even though they knew it would hurt Xbox One S sales. Its strategy is to trickle new info continuously, without giving the whole details to buy time and cover the late launch. The DF reveal is one of such attempts. See the change of the architecture in Scorpio, throwing out ESRAM and adopting a PS4-like architecture. If Microsoft had planned Scorpio when they designed Xbox One it wouldn't have happened.
MS is a year late, Sony is not a year early. The question is going to be what is MS going to do when the PS5 is out in two years and they just released a console.
Also this holiday we are going to see:
$199 PS4, $299 Pro
$199 XB1, $399+-$499 Scorpio
We all know price drives sales for all years except launch.
Also this holiday we are going to see:
$199 PS4, $299 Pro
$199 XB1, $399+-$499 Scorpio
We all know price drives sales for all years except launch.
DuckThor Evil
Legend
Not really contesting your final conclusion, but that is a whole lot of assumptions.
PS4 Pro APU is not even close to 440mm2 for starters. I don't have the exact figure, but the size is close to same or even little less than the original PS4 APU. Scorpio is at 360mm2, and the Pro is less than that. Assuming similar prices and defect rates for the 2 different processes (16nm vs 28nm) is probably off as well.
Rikimaru
Veteran
Generations are tied to tech process. And 7nm will likely have a very long life.
Scorpio is faster but also is more expensive to manufacture.
That's a pretty big assumption. We don't even have the console price yet.
Tommy McClain
Rikimaru
Veteran
It is more expensive to manufacture 100%.
384bit bus, 12Gb GDDR5 + vapor chamber cooling.
Sony was even considering 128 bit bus + EDRAM.
itsmydamnation
Veteran
Sry i should have made it clear.Not really contesting your final conclusion, but that is a whole lot of assumptions.
I was normalizing based off how much bigger the die would be @ 28nm based on scaling up the PS4 to PS4 pro sized GPU, I only went down this path because there is no published die size for PS4pro. It is too hard to find reliable defect rate and 16nm pricing ( i've seen 14nm LLP thrown about quite a bit) . You can also look at it from a pure cost per transistor point of view. http://i.imgur.com/eezbRGE.jpg. If you assume 30% more transistors for PS4pro at a ~ 20% price reduction then you end up at the same price for a PS4pro vs PS4 APU assuming you have the same yields. I think the same yields part is unrealistic.
To be honest I think it would have been pretty much interesting and maybe even more beneficial for Sony to wait for PS4 Pro.
And the reason is this. The PS4 would have still been outselling competition and enjoying healthy sales without Pro until Scorpio was released.
If the Pro was going to receive the same treatment as Scorpio and release later, they would have still been perceived as the manufacturer with the most powerful console, cut off completely MS's efforts and they would have maintained the lead in all areas.
Sony would have been outselling MS in both premium and standard models as the PS platform would have been the better option in all cases. MS strategy would have been broken. MS wouldnt have been able to compete at all as any strategic advantage to gain back momentum would have been eliminated
And the reason is this. The PS4 would have still been outselling competition and enjoying healthy sales without Pro until Scorpio was released.
If the Pro was going to receive the same treatment as Scorpio and release later, they would have still been perceived as the manufacturer with the most powerful console, cut off completely MS's efforts and they would have maintained the lead in all areas.
Sony would have been outselling MS in both premium and standard models as the PS platform would have been the better option in all cases. MS strategy would have been broken. MS wouldnt have been able to compete at all as any strategic advantage to gain back momentum would have been eliminated
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