Sega Linbergh naked

[Farid]

It's good to be right

Hey, Wavey... Remember when I said that Lindbergh had, at best, a 6800.

Just like the Taito Type X it seems that PC based arcade machines, for whatever reason (delay due to the game development, cost(?)...), are never built using the highest end parts availalble.

 

[Griffith]

Hey, Wavey... Remember when I said that Lindbergh had, at best, a 6800.

True, Kudos to you
but I think the same..

 

[function]

At least R&D into Lindbergh Step 2 should be cheap!

 

[Platon]

i thought a chick was naked, damm, wasted my time.

Agreed, major dissapoinment. Only in a place like this you would have people drooling over naked... hardware ...

 

[London Geezer]

It's good to be right

Oh yes it is.

 

[Fox5]

Oh, that Service Lindbergh is hot! With a middle name like Games, you know it's gotta be ornery!

 

[Reznor007]

I love studying the guts of arcade systems, really, I do. But if I want to look at the insides of an average-ish PC, I pop the side cover on my own system thankyouverymuch.

Oh, how the times have changed... Custom silicon and lots of big ASIC chips spread out across multiple fibreglass boards, oh, those were the days. Won't be coming back any more.

Yeah, I miss the old flagship arcade systems, but at the same time, many were a disgusting frankenstein of a setup.

I have a couple Namco System21 boards(Air Combat, Cybersled), and a pair of Sega Model 1 boards(Virtua Racing twin), and they are a hassle to store and move.

VR has 2 CPU boards(using the bastard NEC V60 CPU), 2 video boards(uses System24 video chips), 2 ROM boards, 2 network boards(toslink connections), 2 I/O boards, 2 sound boards, 2 sound option boards, and the force feedback board. All together it probably weighs around 50 pounds.

The System21 boards are nicer, but still shows what all they had to pile on to get the performance right. It has a 2d video board, CPU/sound board, DSP board, and 3d rasterizer board all in a cage. The DSP board alone has 5 TMS320C25 DSP's(1 master, 4 slave) and 4 large custom Namco QFP's connected to the slave DSP's. The CPU board has a pair of 68000's for the main program and a 6809(IIRC) for the sound system.

This isn't even getting to Atari's 6+ CPU 3d systems like Race Drivin'. Those are scary.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What's the life expectancy of an arcade machine these days? In terms of when is the tech replaced, rather than when is it worn out! I imagine with PC GPU's increasing at the rate they do, and consoles pushing the envelope more, Arcades would have to be upgraded often to stay ahead enough to warrant the stupid prices to play them (not that I personally think any game warrants the stupid prices people have to pay)

 

[Fox5]

What's the life expectancy of an arcade machine these days? In terms of when is the tech replaced, rather than when is it worn out! I imagine with PC GPU's increasing at the rate they do, and consoles pushing the envelope more, Arcades would have to be upgraded often to stay ahead enough to warrant the stupid prices to play them (not that I personally think any game warrants the stupid prices people have to pay)

Lindbergh is probably the most powerful arcade setup out now, and it's based on hardware that's nearly 3 years old and wasn't top of the line when it came out.

 

[Reznor007]

What's the life expectancy of an arcade machine these days? In terms of when is the tech replaced, rather than when is it worn out! I imagine with PC GPU's increasing at the rate they do, and consoles pushing the envelope more, Arcades would have to be upgraded often to stay ahead enough to warrant the stupid prices to play them (not that I personally think any game warrants the stupid prices people have to pay)

Depends on the game. Mario Kart Arcade GP is just a Gamecube with double the RAM, but it's pretty popular despite the "outdated" graphics.

Pricing is one of the reason arcades are dying. The Mario Kart game comes as a pair(2 players) and costs around $17,500 US. Even if you charge $1 per play, that's a lot of playing just to pay for the game, not counting the city/state license stickers you have to buy or to pay for electricity and building costs. If the game turns out to be unpopular...you're out a pretty good chunk of cash.

Arcade repair parts are another place where game companies get you. Tekken4 and 5 arcade use modified PS2 boards with IDE DVDROM drives. The game is programmed to only accept a certain model drive, so when yours craps out, you have to buy a new drive from Namco at stupid cost, or upgrade the security dongle to allow any drive. The "security dongle" is actually just a standard PS2 memory card with some special data on it. The upgrade card costs over $1,000 US(last time I checked anyway). Yeah...a $1K 8MB memory card.

 

[Megadrive1988]

At least R&D into Lindbergh Step 2 should be cheap!

yeah, like selecting another low-end to midrange PC....hehe....what R&D ?

I know there a little more to it than that, but man, it's nothing like the 1990s when everything was custom custom custom proprietary technology.

 

[Lazy8s]

Arcade hardware is updated every two years or faster.

With Lindbergh having been demonstrated at full speed at last year's E3, the hardware seemed most likely to be in the GeForce 6 generation once nVidia was revealed as the supplier.

PowerVR still R&Ds a performance line of processors in addition to their portable line, so their desktop solution, which would be compatible with standard APIs as any desktop chip is, could've been used to make an arcade board. A member of the PC graphics duopoly probably won out instead because their more prolific development can allow them to offer a more attractive upgrade path over multiple revisions.

 

[function]

Could DX10 give PowerVR a route back into the PC market? And are they still focused on deferred rendering?

 

[Farid]

Could DX10 give PowerVR a route back into the PC market?

Maybe, but the usual problem with PVR is that they won't enter the PC space on their own any time soon. If you see a PVR card, it will be produced by another party.
The problem is that the 3D garphics market, in terms of player, is shrinking as days go by, due to the continuous consolidation happening in this relatively young market. So, there's not a lot of people out there ready to produce a new GPU for the PC space and then front with Ati and Nvidia.

Actually even if the hardware could be produced, the drivers will be a huge issue. Unless Imgtec build up the number of folks in their software team, that is.

And are they still focused on deferred rendering?

Of course.

 

[Betamax]

wrt to the Sega/IT deal:

"Is the deal with Sega still on?"

"Oh yes - still on!"

There is officially still hope, though I am officially not hopeful...or should that be 'unofficially hopeful'?

 

[function]

Thanks Vysez.

If the rumour about PowerVR working with Intel on future intergrated graphics products is true, perhaps it would lead to them developing really solid drivers for their technology which could in turn lead into them developing a high performance product? I dunno. Wishful thinking I expect!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If PoweVR is being looked at by Intel, I'd guess that's to bolster Intel's integrated graphics chipsets, no? Why else would Intel care to develop gaphics chipsets that go against nVidia and ATi, especially when PowerVR has obviously failed to be performance/price competitive with nVidia. Making a new range of GPU's doesn't make sense, unless it's something spectacular that's taking a long time to produce.

How much relevance does Intel have in the mobile industry? Is this something they want to penetrate?

 

[function]

Yeah, as I said the rumour was about integrated graphics where Intel currently have their own line of ageing products. I'm presuming that, like the mobile market, they are looking for something with good performance per Watt, mm2 and MB of memory bandwidth. PowerVR seem to excell in this area.

Intel will presumeably need to develop DirectX 9 parts as a minimum, to be followed by DX 10. I doubt that buying in ATI or Nvidia IP would be their first choice, but obviously that wouldn't have to mean PVR.

Hopefully they will produce some reasonably performing parts for use in the future, whatever they go with.

 

[Lazy8s]

Intel's SGX license could be for multiple markets. Portable chips seem like a strong possibility since their last one, the 2700G, was based on PowerVR. The laptop market would be a good fit.

 

[darkblu]

first encounter

last weekend i'm passing through my local silvercity cinema for the first time after about half a year, and behold, a brand new HOTD4 cabinet sitting in the middle of the arcades section. there were plenty of kids around at the moment, but at 2 bucks per 1P-play it was sitting there totally unattended. needless to say, i embraced the opportunitey to meet the linbergh in person (not to mention i'm a hotd fan), so i bought some tokens and engaged.

the game does look nice. the specularities are rather obtrusive, in the 'look-we-have-normal-maps-on-everything' way, but overall the look is nice. i didn't manage to get past the first episode so did not see any of the dirtier levels, but the first one had this clean-even-in-devastation hotd/re biolabs feel to it. i had little time with the game, but definitely one of these days i'll return to continue.