Rings of Red

P

PatrickL

Veteran
Excellent article drom GI biz in my opinion. I, for one, will certainly not go thru the hassle of owning a 360 until reliability is fixed.

However, there is another problem which Microsoft faces at the moment - one which the company has shown even less sign of understanding, or addressing. It is the problem of hardware reliability and customer service, an area in which the Xbox 360 has a track record that is nothing short of utterly appalling - and an area which Microsoft absolutely must address, or risk handing the goodwill of the market back to its rivals.
Of course, this too is not a new problem. Microsoft has been slammed over the failure rate of Xbox 360 consoles, and its own poor customer service in dealing with that matter, many times before - British readers will undoubtedly recall that the firm was hauled over the coals on the Watchdog programme here only a few months ago.
This problem hasn't gone away; in fact, from a consumer point of view, Microsoft appears to have done precisely nothing to address it. While the attention of the media may have turned to scrutiny of Sony's failings, the vast numbers of Xbox 360 owners who have been let down first by Microsoft's shoddy manufacturing, and subsequently by the company's arrogant and unfair policies with regard to customer service, have increased. Their voices are contributing to a groundswell of unrest and negative buzz which will hurt Microsoft very badly indeed if it is not addressed.
The problem is clear. A large number of Xbox 360 consoles from launch onwards have shipped with manufacturing problems which have manifested themselves in the dreaded "three red lights" - an error code displayed on the front panel which means that the console has died, and needs to be returned to Microsoft for service.
The number of systems which shipped with these problems is a matter of some debate, but it's clear that it is a far, far higher proportion than the company originally admitted. Early claims suggested that Xbox 360 consoles were only failing as often as you would expect from any piece of consumer hardware - a figure generally agreed to be around 3 per cent. However, entire batches of consoles at launch were failing en masse - and the reliability, although it improved, continued to be poor for months afterwards.
Has this been fixed? Who can say - Microsoft has certainly made no promises regarding enhanced reliability for the Xbox 360 Elite console, so it's simply impossible to judge whether new machines rolling off the production line will be any better than their predecessors. Even giving the benefit of the doubt, that still means that millions of machines from the "unreliable" period of the console's manufacturing are sitting under televisions around the world.
This, however, is only half of the problem. For a new piece of consumer hardware to display a high failure rate is damaging, but not seriously so, as long as the company has a good system in place to ensure that customers' systems are being repaired, and goodwill is being maintained.
Unfortunately, Microsoft has made two massive blunders in this regard. Firstly, it has taken to shipping refurbished systems to customers whose consoles have died - not a huge problem in itself, but the reliability of these refurbished machines is also vastly suspect, which results in anecdotal cases where gamers have returned their consoles to Microsoft three or even four times, with each subsequent console suffering the same fault after a few months. These cases make compelling "horror stories" for consumers, and have been widely disseminated.
Secondly, despite its shameful appearance on Watchdog, and being lambasted by the press over its behaviour, Microsoft continues to insist that British consumers whose consoles have failed after its 12 month warranty period must pay GBP 85 (around 125 Euro) to have the system repaired. Its customer service representatives are adamant on this point, refusing to budge even when it is pointed out that these manufacturing flaws are clearly Microsoft's responsibility under consumer law, regardless of the terms of the firm's own warranty.
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:LOL: Here I thought this thread was about the game Ring of Red. At least this reminded me to track down that game. I've been meaning to play it.
 
vazel said:
:LOL: Here I thought this thread was about the game Ring of Red. At least this reminded me to track down that game. I've been meaning to play it.
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I bought it very early on when I had my PS2, It's abso-f***ing-lutely-amazing..

/off topic

Being a fairly recent Xbox360 owner i'm anxious to see just how long my little box can hold out.. I did have a few read errors during the first week but since then I haven't heard a dickie-bird from it.. So far so good I suspect..

One things for sure though, if in 12-18 months time the console decides to kick the bucket on me, there's no way in hell i'm paying £80+ for repairs that Sony would have given me for free (they did with my PS2).. I'm pretty sure that by that time it won't cost much more to buy a completely new console altogether i'm sure..
 
archangelmorph said:
One things for sure though, if in 12-18 months time the console decides to kick the bucket on me, there's no way in hell i'm paying £80+ for repairs that Sony would have given me for free (they did with my PS2).. I'm pretty sure that by that time it won't cost much more to buy a completely new console altogether i'm sure..
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Don't you live in the UK? X360 has 2+ year warranty in the EU, by law. (5 years in norway)
 
Remove the x-clamps and change the inferior gpu cooling and problem solved.

I cant believe how stupid the designers for the X360 were :???:

"uhh yeah, lets go use an aluminum fin hs for the gpu and cram it under the dvd drive, and hopefully the quarter inch opening will be enough for the fans to suck out the hot air"

"meanwhile, lets use a copper hs with heatpipes for the cpu, and lets design it in a way that the two fans can both suck the heat out, not leaving much for the gpu. im sure it'll do just fine"

:mad:
 
Ostepop said:
Don't you live in the UK? X360 has 2+ year warranty in the EU, by law. (5 years in norway)
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As the article appears to point out, consumers are approaching MS after the one year official warranty and being told they have to pay £85. Sure, the law states they're entitled to more (supposedly, though I've never been able to track it down myself!) but if you don't know about it, you pay up and whinge to everyone else how diddled you feel. And if you do go through the courts, you've got to wait goodness knows how long to get your console sorted as 'due process' takes its lethargic course. Either way it's bad news. If the law is two years warranty, MS ought to be honouring that rather than playing the dirty and asking for money when they shoudn't be.

In every way it, at the moment it reflects badly on MS. And given their reputation with computers, expecting the worst of MS is probably common practice.
 
someone got free replacement (new one!)

http://forums.pesfan.com/showpost.php?p=4891471&postcount=36729

but its only a deal between retailer and a customer :mad:

you need to register (edit: to see the link above if you are/were confused), here's what was said in the post linked above:

right then guys i have some fantastic news to report back to you guys. As you all know i got the Ring Of Death as it is now known. I refused to pay MS £80 to fix my faulty box so i took the case up with trading standards, and also woolworths.

My 360 was out of waranty as it was purchased in December '05 however the lady at woolworths HQ said that if i could prove that it was faulty at the time of sale i.e it had an inherant fault then i could get a new one. Here is what i prited off:

Trading Standards:
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/c...V0050-1011.txt


Proof of faults:
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl.../09/23/2037220

Sale Of Goods Act 1979 (sayin its the shop not MS that replace them):
http://www.dti.gov.uk/consumers/fact...page24700.html

print them out take them to your shop, say you have contacted trading standards, show them the sheets if needed and they should replace it there at the shop. Like mine!

Hope this helps you all.
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*Note: UK legislation
 
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Well if you're in the EU, you shouldn't need too. That's surely part of the reason for higher cost items? The ESP to 2 years is a de facto standard, legal right.I expect companies factor that into their prices. In the US that may be common practice, to separate warranty from product price, kinda like independent health insurance and all sorts of other insurances. In the EU, this stuff comes prepaid in taxes, so we shouldn't be expected to pay for it again. And we don't have to, but we do have to jump through legal hoops on occassion to get companies to toe the line, which is an aggravation.
 
Great article. While I'm on my launch unit, this is truly a disgrace.

http://www.digitimes.com/bits_chips/a20070430PB208.html

Xbox 360 GPU to go to 65nm in fall, TSMC to see side benefits, says paper


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Latest news
Commercial Times, April 30; Esther Lam, DIGITIMES [Monday 30 April 2007]

Sources at equipment makers were cited by a Chinese-language Commercial Times report as saying that the Xbox 360 will be equipped with a 65nm-made Xenos graphics processing unit (GPU) in the fall and that corresponding foundry partner Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC) will see benefits.

The paper cited the sources as saying that an engineering version of the 65nm-made Xenos has been sent out and production will start in May. TSMC projected sales contribution from 65nm would amount to 5% during mid-2007.

On a separate note, TSMC announced the introduction of 65nm-made embedded DRAM in March. Embedded DRAM is one of the two dies that comprise the Xenos. In the 90nm version of the Xenos, embedded DRAM is manufactured by NEC.
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This should help.
 
vazel said:
:LOL: Here I thought this thread was about the game Ring of Red. At least this reminded me to track down that game. I've been meaning to play it.
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I was thinking the same thing... :( I still have my copy; loved the game (particularly the background story).
 
On a slightly related note in Finland Microsoft is refusing to honour the warranty if you are the second owner of the console. So if I buy a used console that is six months old and has 1.5 years of warranty left, if it brakes MS won't honour the warranty even though they are breaking the Finnish law in the process, this has become a slight problem in Finland recently.
 
Dr Evil said:
On a slightly related note in Finland Microsoft is refusing to honour the warranty if you are the second owner of the console. So if I buy a used console that is six months old and has 1.5 years of warranty left, if it brakes MS won't honour the warranty even though they are breaking the Finnish law in the process, this has become a slight problem in Finland recently.
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Many many companies wont honour a warranty on a second hand product of theirs if thats what you're getting at. Like if i buy a used once Xbox on Ebay for fifty cents, Microsoft will tell me to go screw if it cought fire the next day. A lot of products/warranty agreements work like that. No bill of sale by a real distributor = illegitimate ownership.

The CS seems to be a regional thing. For the most part i've heard its very good in the US.
 
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I'd imagine because secondhand sales benefit no one but the retail store/person that sold it to you. I once read a developer say in an interview he'd rather you warez than buy one of his games secondhand and use that money you saved to buy a game brand new. I'm sure I paraphrased a little wrong but I can't find that damn interview anymore. Wasn't the PS3 going to have a system by which games are locked to specific consoles to get rid of the secondhand market? I wonder if they'll do that with their next-gen console.
 
SugarCoat said:
Many many companies wont honour a warranty on a second hand product of theirs if thats what you're getting at. Like if i buy a used once Xbox on Ebay for fifty cents, Microsoft will tell me to go screw if it cought fire the next day. A lot of products/warranty agreements work like that. No bill of sale by a real distributor = illegitimate ownership.
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Yep that's where I'm getting at. It's against the Finnish law to remove the warranty from a product if it changes ownership during the warranty period. Two year warranty is two year warranty no matter what. (unless the unit is abused etc.)

I haven't heard any other company dishonouring that law in Finland so far.

edit: For example if you buy a 6 month old car, you don't lose the manufacturers warranty, eventhough the company makes no extra money out of you.
 
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