Rift, Vive, and Virtual Reality

[Arwin]

Zen Pinball 2 on PS3 already (PS4 version too) supported 3D TVs, and that is really amazing already. Suddenly there is a real table behind your monitor and the sense of scale is amazing. On PS3 there was too much lag added when playing in 3D, but the PS4 version is much better. The menu is also very nice in 3D.

Unfortunately my 3D monitor is rather laggy (it's basically a very cheap LG tv) and passive, so much lower res, so the experience on my low-lag near perfect colors and still cheap 2D Bravia is much better. VR will be even better for sure - there are some 50 tables for it and I have almost all of them. The quality of the tables is variable, but almost all of them are very good and as there are so many of them now there are certain to be some to your liking.

Recent highlights for me have been the Family Guy and South Park tables and the Portal table is also very neat. New tables just keep coming!

The game is also on mobile now, and pretty decent there, but I like real buttons for Pinball in particular. On PC the game (called Pinball FX2 there like on Xbox One) has been held back by stupid exclusivity deals though and has only a fraction of the available tables. There are also a lot of complaints on PC now about the new EULA. All of that doesn't apply to PS4 though, Zen Pinball 2 there is definitely the best version if you ask me. Polished, low-lag, beautiful and extremely smooth.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Zen Pinball 2 on PS3 already (PS4 version too) supported 3D TVs, and that is really amazing already. Suddenly there is a real table behind your monitor and the sense of scale is amazing. On PS3 there was too much lag added when playing in 3D, but the PS4 version is much better. The menu is also very nice in 3D.

I don't know about Zen Pinball, but Pinball Arcade supports 3D Vision on the PC. That's pretty cool. Clearly VR will blow it away though.

 

[London Geezer]

My problem with 3D pinball on PS3/4 is that it still doesn't give me a real sense of depth, after the first few seconds. I always preferred playing in 2D as its much sharper (on PS3 at least) and less laggy. I think VR would be much better.

 

[hughJ]

So I downloaded and played the VR pinball on DK2. Resolution is poor (obviously), depth is nice, CV1 should be a lot smoother at 90Hz instead of 75Hz and more comfortable with the wider sweet spot on the lenses. With DK2 the area in focus through the lens is quite narrow, so you really need to look straight through the center of them. In the case of pinball this meant having to play hunched over the table. Played for 4 hours like that, lol. Good to remember when you play pinball on TV/monitor you're probably going to have a more comfortable experience than you will in VR because the table sits just like a regular pinball table would.

 

[Blazkowicz]

How about playing from the ball's perspective?

 

[manux]

I guess I'm going to be waiting for a while for the rift. Got the delay email that so many other people also have received

We know you're anxious to receive your Oculus Rift and apologize for not updating your order status sooner. We've been working through an unexpected component shortage, and unfortunately, that issue has impacted the original shipping estimates for some early customers.

I guess the likely culprits are: Not enough rifts manufactured before launch(many people with very early orders got the delay email), some rifts built for launch were faulty and required rework or some component like the remote is not available and hence the delay.

If oculus knew beforehand what stock they have the communication has been pure shit and awful. On the other hand if the situation was some sort of surprise I would have some sympathy for them.

 

[Arwin]

So I downloaded and played the VR pinball on DK2. Resolution is poor (obviously), depth is nice, CV1 should be a lot smoother at 90Hz instead of 75Hz and more comfortable with the wider sweet spot on the lenses. With DK2 the area in focus through the lens is quite narrow, so you really need to look straight through the center of them. In the case of pinball this meant having to play hunched over the table. Played for 4 hours like that, lol. Good to remember when you play pinball on TV/monitor you're probably going to have a more comfortable experience than you will in VR because the table sits just like a regular pinball table would.

But you played it for four hours?? Because that's quite the endorsement regardless.

Game calibrates on the position you start with according to that tested video, so you could lean back while calibrating so you can position yourself more normally afterwards?

 

[hughJ]

I had about 10 instances of 'just one more game', and then suddenly it was 7am - bleh.

But anyways, as with all VR games there's a button or key bound to recenter your POV, but that recentering maintains the natural horizon (only yaw and position are reset), so it's not like you can set your POV such that the game world is tilted 45deg in order to have the pinball table view be at a comfortable eye level as it is when you play it on TV. The table is always under you just as a real table would be, so no matter how you slice it your head is going to be bent down when playing. It's not really a big deal, just something one forgets about when trying new old things in VR.

edit: Literally the last pinball video game I played was that Space Cadet windows pinball game, so I'm really not a great guy to compare what this VR pinball is like to PS3/PS4 games. Looking at some videos on youtube now and yeah - the resolution/fidelity difference is massive. What you gain from 3D perception you sacrifice in resolution.

 

[eastmen]

Oddly enough, with all the various games that came with the release of the Rift. THIS is the most compelling thing I've seen that makes me somewhat interested in VR.

I would be extremely tempted to buy an OR with this game and a pre-fabricated faux pinball cabinet interface.

It's interesting that the thing that actually makes me interested in VR is just something that allows me to play a game that I could walk down to the local pub and play.

Not flying in space. Not shooting things. Not walking on the moon. But playing a pinball game like a real pinball game.

Compared to buying an actual Pinball game (5000-8000 USD new), it'd be a bargain.

Regards,
SB

I am going to build one of those over the summer. I'm just going to extend it out a bit more so I can put it against my wall and play there instead of my desk. Looks like it can be done for less than a $150 bucks.

 

[Arwin]

I tried the Steam version and it does contain just about all tables that the PS4 version has now as well, so that's an improvement. You can try all of them for a while for free, so that's recommended. I noticed it was quite laggy initially though - your AA settings do have some influence, but it was never as good as on PS4. Also, turning reflections on isn't really recommended as it caused a lot of frame-drops on my system. So yeah, I'm going to agree with the guy from Tested that priority for stable, high framerate and low lag games in VR is going to help a lot for these types of games

 

[hughJ]

So... the Vive review embargo is over and reviews of the shipping hardware and launch content are out now.

Not that anyone here has the time to sit through Giant Bomb's 10 hour marathon live streams where they spent a day with the Rift last week and today the Vive playing through as much content as they could, but their reactions to the software and overall VR experience are probably a more honest and revealing review than any written article could be. My biggest takeaway is that I'm relieved that I wasn't forced to choose between one or the other, because neither feel like comfortable consumer investments.

 

[tabs]

I still just have a DK2. I'm holding off getting an gen one device for at least a while - maybe even waiting to see if gen two has a decent res upgrade. Was pleasantly surprised to find that the free games are available to me after loading up the Oculus Store. I had assumed they were going to be locked with codes in the boxed product. Lucky's Tale and Farlands have been good fun so far.

Lucky's Tale really is a genuinely good game with plenty of replayability that benefits from VR. The time trials are pretty intense. I'm doing what I think are good optimized runs and still just getting a bronze medal - making me believe there must be hidden shortcuts or movement mechanics I've not yet discovered, which has me looking forward to playing more.

Farlands would be a fairly dull game in 2D, but it would work from a gameplay perspective. In VR though the characterful aliens really come to life. I'm only a little way in as things are generally unlocked on a daily (real time) basis. One of the aliens has mimic behaviour so it will copy your physical motions and if you have a mic plugged in it can parrot your voice, tweaked to sound as though coming from it's own vocal chords.

Oculus Cinema looks fine, but it needs a lot more features to deal with user files, such as managing subtitles and sound channels. It's still not really worth using on a DK2 because of the SDE.

Jaunt is a 360 video portal. The concept is good and some of the videos have 360 3D, but it's fairly low quality 3D reminding me of the reprojected stuff we saw in Crysis 2. With higher bitrates and more quality content I could see this being successful. I'd really want something on the level of BBC documentaries or NBA games for it to be something I'd use. Some of the current content is extremely bad.

I've not fired up Elite Dangerous since getting the 1.3 driver but all user reports indicate that there are major gains in performance letting people really crank up the details, with asynchronus timewarp removing any stutter issues people had even at lower settings.

 

[hughJ]

Lucky's Tale really is a genuinely good game with plenty of replayability that benefits from VR. The time trials are pretty intense. I'm doing what I think are good optimized runs and still just getting a bronze medal - making me believe there must be hidden shortcuts or movement mechanics I've not yet discovered, which has me looking forward to playing more.

I don't believe there's shortcuts or more optimized runs beyond taking the most direct paths. I've got silver medals on the first couple levels, felt as you did (that there must be some trick to getting gold) and it just turned out to be shaving .2 seconds here and there. So yeah - nothing deep or fancy with the time trials, you just take the most direct path to where the bird tells you to go next. The controls are excellent though, so trying to time trial some of the harder levels over and over again has some entertainment value.

 

[eastmen]

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Oculus+Rift+Constellation+Teardown/61128

camera break down

EtronTech eSP770U Webcam Controller

• 
  Nordic Semiconductor nRF51822 Bluetooth Smart and 2.4GHz proprietary SoC (also found in the Oculus Rift Headset)

 

[SlmDnk]

Palmer Luckey's tweet to that camera teardown: https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/717770566887825408

Yikes, 1/10? You don't have to dremel it open, guys, the guts slide out if you pull the stand hardware off!

 

[MrFox]

Using a Dremel is in the same ballpark.

 

[hughJ]

Amazing how much mileage Valve can get out of simple little concepts:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OknS2wfHi9E&t=59m15s

And Will Smith's (formerly from Tested.com) new company's project intended to explore TV-like content production for VR:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OknS2wfHi9E&t=8h16m21s

The idea of being able to use VR to do an interview with someone within a 3D environment and record a motion captured broadcast (akin to a recorded game demo) so you can play back a fully interactive broadcast with all the trimmings (positional sound, real time lighting, etc) seems pretty powerful. Not sure how much legal, logistical and engineering legwork would be involved in getting third party assets imported and working well enough to have a 30 minute conversation with a developer inside their own game, but it's hard to argue that the idea isn't at the very least novel.

I think the coolest aspect of VR right now is not what it does for you, but what it could allow you to do. The most exciting content seems to be the stuff that makes you want to sit down and think up new spins on old ideas and entirely new ones.

edit:
Jacking-out of 2016's version of the Matrix. (Inverse kinematics + taking off your headset = comedy):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OknS2wfHi9E&t=8h36m35s

 

[MrFox]

http://www.roadtovr.com/vr-lens-lab-brings-prescription-lenses-rift-vive-kickstarter-now-live/
This is clever. Offering a prescription lens add-on is nice, but they also offer the adapters alone, which your optician can fit whatever your prescription requires. It's exactly like glasses frames.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Finally getting around to seeing what Tested thinks about the HTC Vive.

So a few things. Visual quality and FOV feel similar between the two. Though he mentions that vertical FOV might be ever so slightly larger on the Vive.

The Vive is heavier and bulkier. And is more front heavy than the difference in weight would lead you to believe due to the differences in how the harness is constructed.

Vive requires an external power source, hub and extra wires compared to the Occulus. In fact it needs 3 external power sources. 1 each for each for headset and light houses. Setup is more fiddly and more complicated than the Rift, obviously, due to the light houses. The Rift is definitely a lot more consumer friendly. You just place the camera, plug everything into the computer and then run setup. Vive you have to place each light house, plug them into electrical socket. Plug Vive into it's hub, plug the hub into the computer as well as an electrical socket and then run setup.

And while they commented on how good the audio was for the Rift, there was no comments at all with regards to the audio for the Vive. Safe to say the audio quality (not 3D audio positioning) is not as good as the Rift.

On the flip side, the controllers were well done. I liked it best when there was a laser pointer effect coming out of them. But one thing I noticed in some of the demos. There's a bit of a disconnect between seeing things that in real life you can interact with (books, papers on a table, bottles, etc.) but in game you can't interact with them. In non VR game it's easier to suspend belief as you're already looking at it as a flat image of reality especially when interacting with a console controller as it's not even remotely analogous to real life. In VR where things appear more as they would in real life, it's a bit jarring - at least to me, especially when using the motion controllers to interact with things. Some things you can interact with and some things you can't.

The solar system thing was pretty neat. Makes it a lot easier to relate to the scale of planetary bodies in relation to each other and the sun.

Also if the light stations move even a little bit while you are using Vive, your in game view is going to start wobbling. So either have it on an extremely sturdy mount or make sure no one walks near one. Big troll opportunity here. Pick up a light station and start waving it around while someone is using the Vive and see If you can make them vomit.

So after seeing those if I had to choose one. I think I'd definitely get the Rift over the Vive. It's easier to setup and thus easier to move around. It also has, IMO, a far better software bundle included with your purchase. Vive doesn't offer much and what they do offer with purchase is "limited while supplies last." The Vive motion controllers are a great add in, but would also be paying 200 USD more for that and a more fiddly light station. I doubt a pair of Rift controllers (when the come out) along with an addition camera (for room scale) would be more than the 200 USD difference.

And I have yet to see anything I find compelling (to me) other than that VR pinball experience with a faux pinball cabinet interface. So, VR is still somewhere off in the distant future, if it catches on and if I ever see enough to make me want one.

Oh, one last thought. The HTC Vive is going to be hugely popular in Japan with a large niche of PC players due to the motion controls and ability to move your face in as close as you want to objects. I don't think more needs to be said about that. And Rift once it has motion controls as well. I imagine it won't be long until some of those Japanese PC game developers make some games for VR that give the Illusion of real life interaction.

Regards,
SB

 

[Arwin]

Rift for me too is regaining a bit of an edge. HTC Vive I'd want to wait until the next gen version perhaps. Too expensive for me right now too. If games start supporting a PS4 controller for the Rift, it'll be hard for me to resist one when I get a chance to buy one. Also like the Rift's motion controllers better, and the headset seems more comfortable.


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