Rift, Vive, and Virtual Reality

[manux]

HTC Vive pre-orders opening February 29, shipping in April:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/12092607/HTC-Vive-pre-orders-to-start-on-February-29.html




No, they pretty much changed the narrative at the last moment. It probably happened when someone within the higher ranks of Facebook found out they were only being able to produce small quantities of the consumer version so they should sell it at a big profit -> thanks to all the hype they got from promising an affordable price.

If you don't already have that super fast gaming pc the oculus story changed from
1000$+599$ = 1600
to
1000$+399$ = 1400

And that is for machine that is barely minimum spec. If you want to have more than minimun experience you have to dish out some more money to the pc...

What rift costs is pretty inconsequential to the overall cost of ownership. Rift was never to be mainstream this year as the cost of the gaming PC is more than masses can handle.

Do you really think 1600$ investment is that much more than 1400$ investment? Is that the 200$ difference in ownership cause for rift to become niche instead of mainstream? My opinion is rift was to be niche no matter what... And rift will stay that way for some years to come.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Oh please.. it makes no sense to make those calculations with the cost of a PC. The PC can be used for stuff other than games, and even the games can be perfectly played in a regular screen without the damn thing.
Plus, the PC is modular. For many people (probably most PC gamers), all it will take to get within Oculus' recommended spec is a $300 graphics card upgrade or even just a second graphics card in the case of GTX 960 or R9 280/380 users. For many others who bought graphics cards in the $450 range up to 2 years ago, they don't even have to move an inch.

And the OR isn't $600. It's $630 for the U.S. and up to $1000 for the rest of the world.

You're damn right it's for a niche, when people across the ocean have to pay $900 to get one.

 

[manux]

Oh please.. it makes no sense to make those calculations with the cost of a PC. The PC can be used for stuff other than games, and even the games can be perfectly played in a regular screen without the damn thing.
Plus, the PC is modular. For many people (probably most PC gamers), all it will take to get within Oculus' recommended spec is a $300 graphics card upgrade or even just a second graphics card in the case of GTX 960 or R9 280/380 users. For many others who bought graphics cards in the $450 range up to 2 years ago, they don't even have to move an inch.

And the OR isn't $600. It's $630 for the U.S. and up to $1000 for the rest of the world.

You're damn right it's for a niche, when people across the ocean have to pay $900 to get one.

It makes all kinds of sense to make the calculation with the price of the pc. The person who can and will afford necessary pc will feel very differently about rift price than a person who isn't so keen on investing that money to pc(or even cannot affort to pc to begin with). If someone made a poll for:
* owns minimum req pc(or better), will buy rift
* owns minimum req pc(or better), will not buy rift
* doesn't own minimum req pc, will buy pc and rift
* cannot afford minimun spec pc so talk of rift is purely academical

the results of that poll would tell a lot... and remember from nvidia the minimum is 970... even 780 doesn't cut it.

For rift to be mainstream you need the average ultraportable laptop to be within rift minimun spec. i.e. anyone who has gone beyond tablet can use rift and have meaningful good experience. That will take years to happen... rift needs to get cheaper and required pc hw needs to become mainstream.

You also have to realize that 1000$ pc in my previous post is in us currency and us pricing... It would not have sales tax, customs etc. added. The price of the pc will balloon in europe the same way as the price of rift.

 

[hughJ]

If +/- $200 is enough to turn people away from this generation of VR then I don't think they should have been considering buying into this generation anyways. Until there's a clear killer app or selection of them this generation of VR is still very much a proof of concept and a promise of what's to come, not an arrival of a consumer platform. For all the whining about the sticker price I've yet to see anyone complain about how they're now deprived of playing VR game X or Y, and that's because VR is still entirely being sold on the idea of it, not what it specifically stands to deliver. If $600 is too rich for your blood then be thankful that you're being given the justification to wait and actually try it elsewhere first, or see what sort of software library it will have.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

HTC Vive pre-orders opening February 29, shipping in April:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/12092607/HTC-Vive-pre-orders-to-start-on-February-29.html.

Interesting that also has a leak to PSVR possibly costing more money than Oculus Rift.

The price of Sony's virtual reality headset PlayStation VR appears to have been leaked on Amazon's Canadian site, at a $1,125 Canadian dollars, or £546.

I was expecting Sony to subsidize it somewhat. But perhaps they don't see VR taking off either and don't want to take the risk, hence the potential 800 USD list price.

I wonder what the whole internet angst Rift so expensive meme will turn into when it turns out the Vive and PSVR could end up even more expensive.

Regards,
SB

 

[manux]

I find it hard to believe that morpheus alone would be that expensive. On the other hand if that is a bundle with ps4+camera+2*move+morpheus and a game I could somehow believe that price to be real.

 

[Arwin]

I have a PC capable enough but also a PS4, but with 699 vs 399 I'd buy the PlayStation VR first for sure.

 

[pjbliverpool]

I find it hard to believe that morpheus alone would be that expensive. On the other hand if that is a bundle with ps4+camera+2*move+morpheus and a game I could somehow believe that price to be real.

All for £530? Lol not a chance. The console alone with 1 game is £300.

 

[MrFox]

Interesting that also has a leak to PSVR possibly costing more money than Oculus Rift.

It was confirmed to be an error.

$1125.35 looks like a number written by bashing the keyboard. Three times, with the right hand, to be precise.

 

[davygee]

All for £530? Lol not a chance. The console alone with 1 game is £300.

To be honest, you can pick up a PS4 with a game for as little as £250 in th UK, although I will be honest I seriously doubt Sony could release a PS4+PSVR set for $599, but you never know.

The report this was linked to was already debunked by Sony as being incorrect.

 

[davygee]

Plus, the PC is modular. For many people (probably most PC gamers), all it will take to get within Oculus' recommended spec is a $300 graphics card upgrade or even just a second graphics card in the case of GTX 960 or R9 280/380 users. For many others who bought graphics cards in the $450 range up to 2 years ago, they don't even have to move an inch.

I agree, for most people it's possibly anything from a $300-$450 graphics card upgrade to be OR ready. But you have to take into account this cost and the cost of the OR as well, so we are talking in excess of $1000 for most PC gamers. This is a huge ask. This is why (assuming PSVR comes in within th expected range) is a better option for most gamers. Essentially a $600-$700 investment to get both a PS4 and PSVR, and don't forget that there will be a decent % of PC gamers that will already have a PS4.

All in all, it's interesting to see this pan out and I just want Vive and PSVR prices announced so we an see where this is going.

 

[hughJ]

It was confirmed to be an error.

$1125.35 looks like a number written by bashing the keyboard. Three times, with the right hand, to be precise.

...which just so happens to result in being $799/800 USD if you check what the exchange rate was on the day it was posted. It's obviously not random, but whether or not it's actually representative of a particular package SKU price, or was just a placeholder who knows. Even a dirt cheap PSVR could probably get to $800 USD if you included the PS4 and all the trimmings.

 

[tabs]

Palmer explains the pricing and talks a little about the hardware and the future.

 

[hughJ]

This is probably the most frank interview he's done regarding the consumer launch and pricing:

 

[pjbliverpool]

So Palmer see's Oculus + Vive as high end and PSVR + Gear VR "at the lower end of the playing field" and not necessarily going to provide the "benchmark VR experience". Interesting.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

So, yes, basically what I've said before.

1. Started Kickstarter inking they could release a quality VR experience for around 300 USD.
2. Developed prototype VR unit and got it into user hands.
3. Found out the VR experience with that unit was seriously lacking in many areas.
4. Worked to fix the issues that users brought up.
4a. Price increases due to this.
5. Release second unit that users found better but still had issues.
6. Worked to address issues brought up by users.
6a. Price increases due to this.
7. Final unit and release price ends up at 599 USD.

Oh and somewhere along the way there was the whole thing with the internet thinking the price was going to be 1500 USD. Then trying to show how absurd that was by claiming it'd be closer to 350-ish USD. Then trying to correct that by stating it would potentially be quite a bit more than 350, only to have the internet ignore him and just focus on the 350 figure because it fit what they wanted to believe.

Yes, they could have released a budget VR device with a very rough budget experience that the "masses" may have rejected. Personally, while I'm not all that interested in VR, I think it was probably the right move.

Demand is currently there as it would have been for a cheaper budget VR experience (the original ~300 USD vision). But I think a quality experience has much more potential for keeping VR relevant than if people's initial experience was that of the first prototype unit released to select users.

Regards,
SB

 

[eastmen]

I still wonder how well a note 5 screen with ipd adjustment and better head straps would fair .

I'm sure the price would have come in a lot lower than we have now.

 

[hughJ]

I still wonder how well a note 5 screen with ipd adjustment and better head straps would fair .

I'm sure the price would have come in a lot lower than we have now.

You'd likely have to sacrifice the 90Hz then and be willing to accept something between 60-75Hz. The only HMDs we've seen from Oculus and Valve that have hit 90Hz have either been binned and precariously overclocked internal prototypes, or the panels used in the Vive/CB/Rift HMDs. My memory may be bad, but I seem to remember seeing photographs of the Crystal Cove hitting 83-86fps, while the more broadly released DK2 ended up being limited to 75Hz (both using the Note 3 panel.)

 

[eastmen]

You'd likely have to sacrifice the 90Hz then and be willing to accept something between 60-75Hz. The only HMDs we've seen from Oculus and Valve that have hit 90Hz have either been binned and precariously overclocked internal prototypes, or the panels used in the Vive/CB/Rift HMDs. My memory may be bad, but I seem to remember seeing photographs of the Crystal Cove hitting 83-86fps, while the more broadly released DK2 ended up being limited to 75Hz (both using the Note 3 panel.)

You'd likely have to sacrifice the 90Hz then and be willing to accept something between 60-75Hz. The only HMDs we've seen from Oculus and Valve that have hit 90Hz have either been binned and precariously overclocked internal prototypes, or the panels used in the Vive/CB/Rift HMDs. My memory may be bad, but I seem to remember seeing photographs of the Crystal Cove hitting 83-86fps, while the more broadly released DK2 ended up being limited to 75Hz (both using the Note 3 panel.)

crystal cove used two screens

 

[hughJ]

crystal cove used two screens

Crystal Cove = DK2 prototype, Note3 screen, demoed at CES 2014.

edit:
enum HmdTypeEnum
{
HmdType_None,

HmdType_DKProto, // First duct-tape model, never sold.
HmdType_DK1, // DevKit1 - on sale to developers.
HmdType_DKHDProto, // DKHD - shown at various shows, never sold.
HmdType_DKHD2Proto, // DKHD2, 5.85-inch panel, never sold.
HmdType_DKHDProto566Mi, // DKHD, 5.66-inch panel, never sold.
HmdType_CrystalCoveProto, // Crystal Cove, 5.66-inch panel, shown at shows but never sold.
HmdType_DK2,
HmdType_BlackStar, // Prototype for E3 2014
HmdType_CB, // EVT Prototypes for Oculus Connect

// Reminder - this header file is public - codenames only!

HmdType_Unknown, // Used for unnamed HW lab experiments.

HmdType_LAST
};