Revolution will not support HD (official)

[Kolgar]

Not to get too far off topic but do you guys agree with the following quote made by Iwata?

Nintendo's use of flash memory rather than a hard disk was very much intentional. The company believes that kids as young as five years old will use the Revolution and could damage a built-in hard disk. Additionally, Iwata points to longevity, reliability and cost as being part of the decision to go with flash.

This comment by Iwata reaffirms for me that Nintendo is once again making younger gamers a priority - maybe the priority - in which case, the decision to forego HD makes perfect sense.

Even in 2010, how many kids' playrooms will be equipped with HDTVs?

 

[jvd]

I think Shark Sandwich nailed it very eloquently. Nintendo's aiming at a different segment of the market, a younger market, and frankly, most of those kids just won't be playing Revolution on an HDTV.

Also its not just younger people playing the rev on standard def . Older people will be too . Hdtvs are still very expensive and people who have bought a new 50 inch screen for dirt cheap in the last 5-10 years aren't going to buy a new tv just for a new console . I have many friends that are have good jobs and make good money and they wont be buying new tvs anytime soon as they just bought them when they moved out on thier own.

There will be alot of people playing revs , x360s and ps3s on standard def tvs .


I don't think it was the smartest move but it could have been worse. They could have stuck with carts

 

[cthellis42]

Even in 2010, how many kids' playrooms will be equipped with HDTVs?

The real question is "even in 2010, is that the only customers they want to entice?"

 

[PC-Engine]

If the graphics are really good then it doesn't matter that it doesn't support HD.

Yes, it does matter. Having a higher resolution offers more clarity to the image. That is a big part of the graphical "wow" factor. It's like Ps2 fans who tried to say that texturing didn't matter. There are multiple aspects of 3d... the Revolution starts out behind the other two just because the output will be inferior.

Plus, we're talking about systems that will still be going in 2010/2011. A system that only support 480p at that point? Ewwww.

I'd rather play a game at 720x480p DVD resolutions that looks near CGI than a game at 1080p that looks like an average PC game.

 

[Teasy]

This comment by Iwata reaffirms for me that Nintendo is once again making younger gamers a priority

Not making older gamers a priority to the exclusion of everyone else does not equal making kids a priority.. Look at the design of Revolution, that design is not aimed at kids.

Yes, it does matter. Having a higher resolution offers more clarity to the image.

Anti-alising and Anisotropic filtering can have the same effect though..

 

[PC-Engine]

Look at the design of Revolution, that is not aimed at kids.

That's so true, it makes the kiddie argument seem so contradictory.

 

[Guden Oden]

I'd rather play a game at 720x480p DVD resolutions that looks near CGI than a game at 1080p that looks like an average PC game.

That would only be relevant if revolution would output near-cgi gfx at dvd res and the other consoles average PC gfx at HD res.

That's hardly going to be the case though. Everything points to revolution being (perhaps severely) underpowered compared to the competition. Everything also points to Nintendo NOT having learned its lessons, and in fact starts out from an even WORSE position than before by offering a weak, inferior product with some possibly gimmicky aspect to it (the "revolutionary" thing, whatever that'll be they're keeping so secret so competitors won't steal it ).

This will probably be the end of the road for me as far as nintendo is concerned. I only got my cube when metroid prime came out, and now it seems like I won't have to get revolution at all. With some luck, Nintendo will be forced to go software-only within a couple years, and then I can play the next Metroid title on PS3 instead.

Not making older gamers a priority to the exclusion of everyone else does not equal making kids a priority.. Look at the design of Revolution, that design is not aimed at kids.

If you mean it doesn't look like a fisher-price toy so it must not be aimed at kids, you're clearly wrong. Older kids (age 8+ or so) don't want to be seen as little kids, they wouldn't want a kiddy-looking console even on pain of death. Your argument proves nothing.

 

[PC-Engine]

That would only be relevant if revolution would output near-cgi gfx at dvd res and the other consoles average PC gfx at HD res. That's hardly going to be the case though. Everything points to revolution being (perhaps severely) underpowered compared to the competition

What's this "everything points to" you talk about? Even if Revolution turns out to be only 2-3X the power of GCN which was shown to be false, wouldn't you think a game like RE4 would look significantly better even with only 2-3X power increase? 2-3X means at least a 1.GHz Gekko, 100MB RAM, and 350MHz Flipper.

Older kids (age 8+ or so) don't want to be seen as little kids, they wouldn't want a kiddy-looking console even on pain of death. Your argument proves nothing.

So you're saying the case design is targeting 8+ yr olds?

I guess that means DVD players, PS3, and Xbox 360 are targeted at 8+ yr olds too.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't see lack of HD as a bad feature, because as said here it's something most people won't get to use. But Nintendo's reasoning? - it costs too much for devs (and consumers who need to buy HDTV), plus games are too long. So they're going to produce cheap, short games?

And so far the only confirmed software seems to be back catalogue. Nintendo sound like they've forgotten about supplying gamers with fun games and are looking instead at how to make more money from a smaller user base. Let's halve the development costs, and release a massive backcatlaogue that we've already written and can recycle...

Honestly, with what Nintendo have announced so far, surely they would be much more profitable releasing emulators on PS and XB for back catalogue! And write cheap, short games for the mobile market. They can recycle Old Skool Mario and friends over and over for several years on mobiles.

 

[Teasy]

If you mean it doesn't look like a fisher-price toy so it must not be aimed at kids, you're clearly wrong. Older kids (age 8+ or so) don't want to be seen as little kids, they wouldn't want a kiddy-looking console even on pain of death. Your argument proves nothing.

My argument proves exactly what it was supposed to prove, you just missed my point. I didn't mean that the Revolutions design shows it is made to apeal only to adults. I was saying that the design is aimed at everyone (Kolgar was suggesting that the console is aimed specifically at kids).

 

[Guden Oden]

What's this "everything points to" you talk about?

First, the tiny size of the revolution case. And before you go on another crusade on how nintendo could use cutting edge tech to squeeze in silicon into two DVD cases that needs far more elaborate designs in other consoles, I will simply preempt you and say it won't happen.

Nintendo has never gone for esoteric solutions before, rather they are very cost-conscience and pick the one that is most practical. Thus, we have to assume revolution will use about the same kind of tech as the other consoles except with less space for cooling, thus lower heat output, thus LOWER PERFORMANCE.

Then there was the 2-4 figure which A GUY AT NINTENDO released.

Even if Revolution turns out to be only 2-3X the power of GCN which was shown to be false

It was never shown to be false! All Nintendo did was issue a retraction and then say the final performance was yet to be announced. That is NOT the same as 'showing it to be false'! Performance could still fall within that range, and I wouldn't be surprised if it did, or relatively close to it anyway.

wouldn't you think a game like RE4 would look significantly better even with only 2-3X power increase?

Of course it would! It would still be vastly inferior to the capabilities of PS3 and x360 though.

So you're saying the case design is targeting 8+ yr olds?

I guess that means DVD players, PS3, and Xbox 360 are targeted at 8+ yr olds too.

Maybe you should like, take some english classes or something. Maybe a college course in debate techniques etc. I believe that would help your level of understanding and prevent unfortunate basic reasoning and comprehension mistakes on your behalf like the one quoted above.

 

[Teasy]

Guden Oden

FYI Revolutions height is supposed to be three DVD cases, not two. Also that only describes the height (or width depening how its standing) and not the rest of the dimensions.

I don't understand where your coming from on possible Revolution specs. You say it may only be 2-3 times as fast as GC but you site past Nintendo consoles as one of your reasons for that opinion. Which doesn't make sense considering how much more powerful GC was compared to N64.

I don't think your really thinking about how slow a GC x 3 would be compared to the other two consoles. For example the CPU would be what?, about 6Gflop? One nineteenth the power of 360's CPU.

 

[Evil_Cloud]

Then there was the 2-4 figure which A GUY AT NINTENDO released.

This was proven wrong, Nintendo said nothing about Revolution's capabilities hardware-wise. 'A GUY AT NINTENDO' isn't that objective and fact driven, now is it?

The only conclusion you can make from the size of the device is that it might be less powerfull than PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360, but the GameCube design proves that a small size console can pack quite some power nontheless.
They could fit in some powerfull hardware in Revolution by 2006, however, comparable with Sony's and Microsoft's consoles (performace-wise), certainly at 65nm. Also, I believe there aren't that many extension ports this time around (WiFi). Time will tell, but you can't really argue that Nintendo's design is 'kiddy' or whatever.

 

[PC-Engine]

First, the tiny size of the revolution case.

Last time I checked GCN was much smaller than Xbox while not being much less powerful.

Nintendo has never gone for esoteric solutions before, rather they are very cost-conscience and pick the one that is most practical. Thus, we have to assume revolution will use about the same kind of tech as the other consoles except with less space for cooling, thus lower heat output, thus LOWER PERFORMANCE.

GCN has slightly less performance than Xbox in general, but the best GCN games certainly can hold its own against the best Xbox games.

Then there was the 2-4 figure which A GUY AT NINTENDO released.

Perran Kaplan is a woman and a PR person who doesn't know what she's talking about considering the hardware isn't even finished.

It was never shown to be false! All Nintendo did was issue a retraction and then say the final performance was yet to be announced. That is NOT the same as 'showing it to be false'! Performance could still fall within that range, and I wouldn't be surprised if it did, or relatively close to it anyway.

If it's not false then it's not true either considering the factors mentioned above.

Of course it would! It would still be vastly inferior to the capabilities of PS3 and x360 though.

It would be inferior, but would it be that inferior? No I'm not talking about paper specs, I'm talking about things you see on the screen.

Maybe you should like, take some english classes or something. Maybe a college course in debate techniques etc. I believe that would help your level of understanding and prevent unfortunate basic reasoning and comprehension mistakes on your behalf like the one quoted above.

Or maybe you should discover the irony in your flawed statement since it applies to PS3 and Xbox 360 also.

Older kids (age 8+ or so) don't want to be seen as little kids, they wouldn't want a kiddy-looking console even on pain of death.

Going by that logic and considering the Revolution doesn't look any more kiddy than PS3 or Xbox 360, those same older kids are targeted by PS3 and Xbox 360's case design too.

 

[AlNom]

GCN has slightly less performance than Xbox in general, but the best GCN games certainly can hold its own against the best Xbox games.

Take out the hard drive, PSU, and dvd drive of the xbox

 

[PC-Engine]

GCN has slightly less performance than Xbox in general, but the best GCN games certainly can hold its own against the best Xbox games.

Take out the hard drive, PSU, and dvd drive of the xbox

That wouldn't help shrink the size of Xbox's motherboard.
How about adding another $100 worth of silicon to GCN in the form of 48MB more memory bringing the total main RAM to 72MB?

 

[RingWraith]

What's this "everything points to" you talk about?

First, the tiny size of the revolution case. And before you go on another crusade on how nintendo could use cutting edge tech to squeeze in silicon into two DVD cases that needs far more elaborate designs in other consoles, I will simply preempt you and say it won't happen.

Thus, we have to assume revolution will use about the same kind of tech as the other consoles except with less space for cooling, thus lower heat output, thus LOWER PERFORMANCE.

Then there was the 2-4 figure which A GUY AT NINTENDO released.

Even if Revolution turns out to be only 2-3X the power of GCN which was shown to be false

It was never shown to be false! All Nintendo did was issue a retraction and then say the final performance was yet to be announced. That is NOT the same as 'showing it to be false'! Performance could still fall within that range, and I wouldn't be surprised if it did, or relatively close to it anyway.

wouldn't you think a game like RE4 would look significantly better even with only 2-3X power increase?

Of course it would! It would still be vastly inferior to the capabilities of PS3 and x360 though.

So you're saying the case design is targeting 8+ yr olds?

I guess that means DVD players, PS3, and Xbox 360 are targeted at 8+ yr olds too.

Maybe you should like, take some english classes or something. Maybe a college course in debate techniques etc. I believe that would help your level of understanding and prevent unfortunate basic reasoning and comprehension mistakes on your behalf like the one quoted above.

Since you brought up english classes you should spruce up on your vocabulary with some lessons of your own:

Nintendo has never gone for esoteric solutions before, rather they are very cost-conscience and pick the one that is most practical.

You are absolutely correct. Nintendo has never implemented Occult Forces in their consoles.

Maybe a college course in debate techniques etc.

You are not debating, your are being a miserable fanboy punk.

 

[Fox5]

Not to get too far off topic but do you guys agree with the following quote made by Iwata?

Nintendo's use of flash memory rather than a hard disk was very much intentional. The company believes that kids as young as five years old will use the Revolution and could damage a built-in hard disk. Additionally, Iwata points to longevity, reliability and cost as being part of the decision to go with flash.

This comment by Iwata reaffirms for me that Nintendo is once again making younger gamers a priority - maybe the priority - in which case, the decision to forego HD makes perfect sense.

Even in 2010, how many kids' playrooms will be equipped with HDTVs?

But those kids can still just as easily buy a PS3 or xbox360. Maybe it's the kid who wants to be an adult, or maybe the kid games on PS3 and xbox360 will appeal to the kids, but PS3 and Xbox360 can still sell to kids, and have the benefit of being viewed as the superior hardware and not just a toy. I think once kids start to reach around 8-10 they really start to want what the adults have, and younger than that they just take what their parents get them.
And if it is selling to kids, the online WiFi download service is probably not the best way to sell. The kids have to now set up a WiFi network(it's a bit simpler just to plug in a cable, but even still online is not exactly kid friendly) and how many kids have free use of credit cards to buy online games?

I'd rather play a game at 720x480p DVD resolutions that looks near CGI than a game at 1080p that looks like an average PC game.

You're assuming revolution has comparable hardware but at a lower resolution.

 

[Guden Oden]

FYI Revolutions height is supposed to be three DVD cases, not two.

WHATEVER! It makes no practical difference anyway.

It is extremely *extremely* unlikely Nintendo would target .65u process for the ASICs in revolution and expect a particular level of both performance AND heat output from finished hardware to match a case that was designed over a YEAR in advance. Then gamble on that they can manufacture enough chips to satisfy demand as well...

Nintendo simply isn't the kind of company to take risks like that.

I don't understand where your coming from on possible Revolution specs.

It may have something to do with the Nintendo-fan blinders you're wearing, I'm not sure...

You say it may only be 2-3 times as fast as GC but you site past Nintendo consoles as one of your reasons for that opinion.

First, I said 2-4 times, but again, whatever. Second, I didn't compare PERFORMANCE to past nintendo consoles, merely referred to technical solutions.

Nintendo is a very practical company, they build streamlined straightforward stuff. N64 and GC are both composed of four major chips, of which half of 'em are memory. Neither are particulary fancy, hell, N64 used a two-layer circuit board for chrissakes...

I can very well imagine Nintendo simply deciding hardware performance isn't going to be a factor they're focusing on in next gen. They'll INCREASE performance sure, but only as a matter of course, because that's the way the computer industry works. Simply by designing a new system X years later you automatically get a lot more performance for the same price. Anyone expecting *competitive* performance out of revolution though (as compared to x360, PS3) will likely be disappointed though.

[quote="Evil_Cloud]but you can't really argue that Nintendo's design is 'kiddy' or whatever.[/quote]
But I never argued that.

Last time I checked GCN was much smaller than Xbox while not being much less powerful.

This isn't a valid comparison. For starters, xb has a lot of stuff which GC lacks. Second, xb case was very likely designed with the american "bigger is better" mentality. There's certainly no technical reason why the xb couldn't be about the same volume as a GC - barring the internal power supply, harddrive and fullsize DVD. Even cooling isn't much of an issue - the heatsink on the CPU is passive as I recall (as it's a mobile celeron), and it's very small on the GPU.

Hence, I find it likely xb was made big simply to make it look more powerful, something it does a poor job of in my opinion, but that's beside the point.

GCN has slightly less performance than Xbox in general but the best GCN games certainly can hold its own against the best Xbox games.

This is of course your own unfounded personal opinion... It's not really based in reality though. Xb has higher performance across the board, sometimes significantly so. As for which games look the best, or as good as some other game(s), that's also personal opinion, and not anything that can be quantified in some kind of objective measurements or somesuch. I'll therefore leave this aspect of your claim unadressed, as it can only lead to pointless, fannish bickering.

Going by that logic and considering the Revolution doesn't look any more kiddy than PS3 or Xbox 360, those same older kids are targeted by PS3 and Xbox 360's case design too.

Yes? So? What I said basically sums up into rev case design does NOT prove it is NOT aimed at the 'kiddy' gen. N64 does not look at all kiddy (IMO anyway), but was swamped in kiddy titles. GC looks very mature IMO (some hate the handle on the back though but I don't mind, since it's on THE BACK), and it still has a higher average of kiddy than its two major competitors.

I see no reason for this pattern to change, especially as it's now firmly established. Does anyone know of even one successful kiddy xb game? I mean, on the order of donkey conga or something like that. Nintendo has entrenched itself in teh kiddy, for better or worse. Not to say there won't be anything else, but it's clear they have no intentions of focusing on the mature either. Nintendo will mainly do kiddy-friendly stuff which older people with open minds can also enjoy (Mario titles, pokemon, whathaveyou), 2nd party will be ambiguous stuff such as Metroid Prime etc; no blood, but no fluffy pink Kirbys n shit either. Mature stuff will be mainly supplied by 3rd parties, of which I'm still unsure there will be enough of next gen. There's a definitive dearth of 3rd party for GC and I am doubtful Nintendo is able to remedy that for revolution. They swore up and down they would for GC, didn't really happen.

That's my prediction anyway, based on past history. To prove me wrong, Nintendo would have to completely change strategy, and frankly I'm not convinced they're able to do that! They're too conservative and too stuck in their ways.

some unintelligible gibberings

When I'm interested in your opinion, I'll ask for it, mmkay?

 

[ninelven]

When I'm interested in your opinion, I'll ask for it, mmkay?

When anyone on this board is interested in yours, I'm sure they will let you know .