Revolution Tech Details Emerge ( Xbox1+ performance, 128 MB RAM )

[swaaye]

Honestly I think they can sit with lesser specs and still compete with Xbox360 & PS3 in visual effects. Like has been said a million times, Xbox and 'Cube are hard to tell apart more often than not. What makes you think next gen will be different? If anything it will probably be harder to see the advantage of having more shaders. We are in the realm of significantly reduced returns people.

Look at 360's launch. It has to be the least impressive display of "next-gen" software in history. It's just not that much of a jump. PC is pretty much on par right now, in visual quality, even if 360 has potentially more powerful hardware. And I am still not convinced on that in-order CPU in there. Framerate in the first gen isn't exactly blowing away first-gen traditions of slow performance (on unimpressive PC ports no less!)

N's system looks to be set to seriously undercut MS & Sony on hardware cost. It puts N in the position of being able to blow away their competition in a price war. If N can get some serious edge on gameplay with titles that the mass market REALLY wants, they could seriously come out ahead. Of course, it's all a bit on the "everything must fit perfectly together" side of things (sorta like that 360 CPU lol).

I think N is trying to create a new paradigm with their controller, because they know graphics are leveling out in improvement. They just need the games now.

 

[scooby_dooby]

But you can still have simple games on the advanced consoles.

Lets just say that if theres a hughe market shift toward simple games, there wont be much problem for developers to make the proper adjustments on Sony or MS consoles; while at the same timing catering to the "traditional"market.

Yup, even more competition in the simple games market. Like XBLive arcade. it's like a console within a console. SOn buys the x360, mom stumbles upon XBLive arcade one day...voila

 

[dubyateeeff]

I would like to see an honest unbiased post from the Nintendo Crowd. With this newer info, how can you really be excited about this compared to PS3 or 360?

Yeah, I am likely getting a Rev because whatever the specs they dont clash with the things that I am most excited about:
* low cost
* BC with GC (Zelda, FF, also the main reason to get the Rev)
* emulation of back catalogue
* new Zelda and FF games
* Small, cool and low noise ratio (likely)

It is looking like Ill get the Rev since it is so cheap and a PS3/X2. Getting a Rev doesnt exclude me from getting another console because of its low price. So, while the specs sucks and irk me, I dont care too much. (Though this is way below what I expected and more power will make me a bit happier)

The thing that got me most excited for X2 is the Game Achievment Points.

For PS3 its ability to use my old 2GB CF as memory storage for games (though this isnt really confirmed) got me most excited.

You also need to remember, being excited about PS3/X2 doesnt make people unable to appreciate other things in life that brings them happiness: girlfriends, pay check, friends, the Nintendo Revolution, food, candy etc.

 

[dubyateeeff]

I think N is trying to create a new paradigm with their controller, because they know graphics are leveling out in improvement. They just need the games now.

I think it is great but it lacks many buttons. One reason why the current controllers are so good is because they have a lot of extra buttons that can be used as function buttons to speed up the game pace instead of holding people hostage in menus and sub menus while they try to access some quirky little thing they need right then and there.

EDIT: and with the nunchaku-extention the simplicity is defeated. BTW I doubt most people find their remotes easy to use. Sure almost everyone understand 0-9, power, volume and the channel buttons, but the other 50 buttons? No way. Controller simplicity is achieved through color, symbol and different kind of markings on the buttons such as different textures and sizes. Of course I bet there are some games which the Rev controller will be more suited to, but for most games - no.

 

[mckmas8808]

If the ps3 launches in the usa and europe towards holiday 2006 , most of the launch titles on the xbox 360 will be million sellers and most likely 20-30$ .

Most of the launch titles will be million sellers and $20-$30?

I don't think so.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Most of the launch titles will be million sellers and $20-$30?

I don't think so.

Most of the xbox 360 launch titles will have sold > a million copies, yes. All the good ones anyways.

Condemned, Kameo, PD0, Madden, NFS: MW, COD2, DOA4 etc etc etc etc

MS typically makes all best-sellers 'platinum hits' and offers them at $20-30. So, ya they will be there next x-mas.

 

[mckmas8808]

Most of the xbox 360 launch titles will have sold > a million copies, yes. All the good ones anyways.

Condemned, Kameo, PD0, Madden, NFS: MW, COD2, DOA4 etc etc etc etc

MS typically makes all best-sellers 'platinum hits' and offers them at $20-30. So, ya they will be there next x-mas.

I agree the good ones, but most? That makes me think 12 out of 15 will sell a million or more.

 

[Powderkeg]

THe cost shouldn't be much diffrent . Aside from that they can make the money back from the controller on shells . They can also just put in the standard remote with no nunchaka attachment .

If they don't include the shell and nunchaka add-ons with the system then developers can't count on people having them. If developers can only count on an 8 way movement with 2 button controller that will massively limit what type of games can be put on the system.

 

[Inane_Dork]

Personally no, I don't think the average person would have a problem based on appearance...

Well, that's what this discussion is about. The charge was that people would shy away from the X360 simply because of the controller complexity. In other words, its appearance. I say that, if true, the wand is also suspect given the amount of individual controls it has. You disagree, but you have no conclusive argument for that. Even if the motion and tilt sensing turns out to make sense within 5 seconds, the rest of the controls are enough to befuddle nongamers.

Actually, I'm somewhat undecided on the topic. I'll wait to see what games actually use the controller for. If only FPS games use the attachment, then the wand may be inviting enough for the nongamer. But what games will only need the wand? Should be interesting.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Honestly I think they can sit with lesser specs and still compete with Xbox360 & PS3 in visual effects. Like has been said a million times, Xbox and 'Cube are hard to tell apart more often than not. What makes you think next gen will be different? If anything it will probably be harder to see the advantage of having more shaders. We are in the realm of significantly reduced returns people.

Call me a blind idiot, but I honestly cannot see a difference between COD2 on the X360 (well, the demo ) and existing high-end Xbox/Cube games other than that things are, for the most part, more detailed and higher res with some more bump maps here and there. It was literally only after hearing reviewers rave about the amazing smoke effects that I went back to Meijer, played it again, and noticed "Oh yeah...that smoke is pretty cool. Neat." And now that some people have told me it has HDR, I guess I can see it, but to me, the lighting doesn't look radically different than, say, Sands of Time or Spartan: Total Warrior. I'm just not familiar enough with the effects at this point to know what artifacts to look for to see a difference.

Having HD and higher-res textures is a noticable advance, but it's nothing like the radical leap Ready 2 Rumble on Dreamcast was, or Rogue Leader on Gamecube. I'm sure you guys could point out millions of little things that all add up to an order of magnitude more than what I saw on Xbox. But right now, there's no one "big" thing that makes the gigantic difference, like having texture filtering, AA, millions of colors, and smooth animation did on Dreamcast, or the way hundreds of thousands of polygons in a scene combined with layer upon layer of textures and/or bump mapping and lifelike water did on Cube, or the way all those projected textures and realtime shadows did on Xbox. Those things all just jumped out at me, kicked my ass, and took my name.

We'll see it eventually, when truly next-gen engines hit. I think Oblivion and Gears of War both look like they'll have that "wow" factor. But for now, PDZ and Madden 06 aren't cutting it.

 

[Asher]

Shog, if Nintendo wanted higher clocks using a non-existant CPU they would have used the 970FX

Seriously though, 750VX has been just as much vaporware as 970FX. Sounds nice, but has anyone actually seen one?
That said, I doubt Nintendo would be taking upper tier of the clock range anyhow - and those vague comments about performance weren't suggesting a 3:1 clock increase over the Gekko either


No, but if it's what I suggested (800-900Mhz 750 derivate) it should easily be low enough on Watt scale to use two. It would also make more sense to use multicore if they're keeping the 1MB of L2.

The 750VX was never mass produced as by the time it was out, customers weren't really interested in it.

 

[mckmas8808]

Call me a blind idiot, but I honestly cannot see a difference between COD2 on the X360 (well, the demo ) and existing high-end Xbox/Cube games other than that things are, for the most part, more detailed and higher res with some more bump maps here and there. It was literally only after hearing reviewers rave about the amazing smoke effects that I went back to Meijer, played it again, and noticed "Oh yeah...that smoke is pretty cool. Neat." And now that some people have told me it has HDR, I guess I can see it, but to me, the lighting doesn't look radically different than, say, Sands of Time or Spartan: Total Warrior. I'm just not familiar enough with the effects at this point to know what artifacts to look for to see a difference.

Having HD and higher-res textures is a noticable advance, but it's nothing like the radical leap Ready 2 Rumble on Dreamcast was, or Rogue Leader on Gamecube. I'm sure you guys could point out millions of little things that all add up to an order of magnitude more than what I saw on Xbox. But right now, there's no one "big" thing that makes the gigantic difference, like having texture filtering, AA, millions of colors, and smooth animation did on Dreamcast, or the way hundreds of thousands of polygons in a scene combined with layer upon layer of textures and/or bump mapping and lifelike water did on Cube, or the way all those projected textures and realtime shadows did on Xbox. Those things all just jumped out at me, kicked my ass, and took my name.

We'll see it eventually, when truly next-gen engines hit. I think Oblivion and Gears of War both look like they'll have that "wow" factor. But for now, PDZ and Madden 06 aren't cutting it.

fearsomepirate give the 360 some slack they are current gen games just rehashed on a next-gen system. Give the devs some actual time then when can consider if it is dimenishing returns.

 

[damisa]

I'm still wondering when previous systems made their first price drop... Anyone got this information? I don't think any of the major systems had a price cut at all in the first year (can't remember for sure though), let alone a 1/3 cut in their price.

Anyone who thinks a 200 core is possible or likely within a year of launch might want to lay off the happy juice.

The first X-box dropped $100 in only 6 months (1/3 cut in price).
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,99524,00.asp

and that was with a relatively expensive hard drive. The core system can easily be priced at $200 holiday '06. I'm not sure if it will be though. If the PS3 really does cost $400, then I don't think MS will be compelled to drop the price any more than $50.

 

[seismologist]

Call me a blind idiot, but I honestly cannot see a difference between COD2 on the X360 (well, the demo ) and existing high-end Xbox/Cube games other than that things are, for the most part, more detailed and higher res with some more bump maps here and there.

I can see where Nintendo is coming from since I agree that the current gen graphics are pretty good already.
But with no major hardware upgrades (even less than the 360), I have to wonder why they're even releasing a new console at all and not just a controller for Gamecube.

 

[pc999]

Just a few points

As picking here ingenu start even a 99$ cosole with games at 50$+, would not going the to be very atreacctive for new gamers anyways, that still very way from a mainstream price so they would sell relatevely very few games even if they had sold a lot of consoles as much less todays gamers will buy it with those specs and their main proffit source still games sell, if they put games at DVDs prices then they do have a good chance IMO as I used to say but they will gamble hard, very hard (personally I think it would have chaces of being sucessefull), I do expect they do that whatever HW configuration they do at least for many games.

On the other hand low-mid end HW price goes down very fast (9600,6600,6200,X1300,X1600, celeron, sempron...in less than 1/2 year it usualy go to 1/2 of the price), but make a brand new product (like Rev) know to a brand new public (specially if not famous with their old public) it is slow, at the very least 1 year or more so they could (should) put, just like the GC, Rev at 199$ for the first year with a good HW and then lower the price to 149$ or 99$, for lower cost games they could just make HW for, not more detail, but more effects like D3 like (hard) shadows (just imagine MP3 with that shadows in Magmor caverns for scary enemys with good AI waiting for the right moment etc...and a good light in the Iceland), and good CPU power.

At the beggining it would be bit costly, in the first year (anyways if it isnt already at 65nm it would be right around the corner), but that wouldnt be bad for new players as they would not know it anyway.

 

[Scott_Arm]

The first X-box dropped $100 in only 6 months (1/3 cut in price).
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,99524,00.asp

and that was with a relatively expensive hard drive. The core system can easily be priced at $200 holiday '06. I'm not sure if it will be though. If the PS3 really does cost $400, then I don't think MS will be compelled to drop the price any more than $50.

My understanding is that MS was willing to sell the Xbox at a huge loss because they had to gain ground on the PS2 which had already been out for a long time.

With the 360, MS plans on making its money back, and they planned to take over the market by launching first, rather than aggressive pricing at a loss. I'm sure they'll be able to price aggressively still, but I don't think you'll see anything in the same vein as the Xbox cuts.

 

[fearsomepirate]

fearsomepirate give the 360 some slack they are current gen games just rehashed on a next-gen system. Give the devs some actual time then when can consider if it is dimenishing returns.

Read the end of the post. I said that big graphical "oomph" is coming, but it's just not in the launch titles. In the sports and racing genres, I don't think it's coming at all. You can put as many beads of sweat on Shaq's face as you like, but when the camera is panned back, all you see is that the team graphic on the court looks better and the surface of the floor looks nicer. And racing games...well, they already look pretty fantastic on current hardware. How much farther is there left to go? Answer: make it higher res. Better reflections. Whee!

That said, I still think DX9 hardware is absolutely necessary. I can think of a few major effects that are instantly noticable when they actually appear and make a huge difference in image quality.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Honestly I think they can sit with lesser specs and still compete with Xbox360 & PS3 in visual effects. Like has been said a million times, Xbox and 'Cube are hard to tell apart more often than not. What makes you think next gen will be different? If anything it will probably be harder to see the advantage of having more shaders. We are in the realm of significantly reduced returns people.

Look at 360's launch. It has to be the least impressive display of "next-gen" software in history. It's just not that much of a jump.

These Revolution specs are significantly lower compared to rival consoles than ever before. I'm looking at X360 launch and playing Kameo as we speak, and to call it unimpressive just means that you don't own the machine and hdtv display, because that is the only way you can make those claims, it's very impressive. It's not just Kameo either, I bought five games and they are all very good, so I don't understand this talk about unimpressive launch games, clearly there aren't many people saying that who actually has the system. Sometimes looking at the pictures is not enough, you have to have the system in your living room to make the final decision. X360 is a huge jump from it's predecessor and no doubt PS3 will be to, as it seem today Rev will not... It however is clear that it's not even Nintendos goal, they are trying to give people different gaming experience with Rev and I hope it turns out well for them, but I think it's time for everyone to Acknowledge that Rev will NOT be on par with X360 and PS3 on GFX, just let it go and consentrate on the good qualities that Rev actually has.

 

[Refreshment]

Quote:
Originally Posted by swaaye
I think N is trying to create a new paradigm with their controller, because they know graphics are leveling out in improvement. They just need the games now.

Something we have to take into consideration is that procesing power just doesnt mean "better-pretty" graphics. Theres alot more to that, not to mention you can achieve new gameplay posibilities with more procesing power and current input devices.

from: pc999

"if they put games at DVDs prices then they do have a good chance IMO"

Yes of course, something similar to the Brain Traning games in Japan. And that not only includes Nintendo but also the rest of developers in order to achieve acceptance of the general public as a comon source of enterteiment like movies or music.

Nintendo's plan is good. The problem rests in its launch date and the system specs. They need to make a sacrifice.

 

[AlNom]

In the sports and racing genres, I don't think it's coming at all...

Not everything can be seen from a picture.