Revolution Tech Details Emerge ( Xbox1+ performance, 128 MB RAM )

[Joe DeFuria]

But wouldn't it be better for grandma to buy a Nintendo handheld?

Why not both?

Seriously, hand-helds and "couch" consoles serve different (though overlapping) purposes.

 

[Inane_Dork]

So, to make Revolution more approachable, 2 things need to happen:

1) Lower the price, so that the barrier to entry is not as high.
2) Offer a more intuitive and approachable interface than the typical controller....while at the same time offering much of the effective functionality of the typical controller.

The big question is number 2. How well can Nintendo pull it off...we'll have to wait and see.

With a sizeable decrease in available controls, yeah, #2 will be difficult.

Also, you left out #3, which is that it has to have some sort of "cool" factor. These kinds of people learn about gaming by word of mouth, so there needs to be positive communicable traits to the Rev that a nongamer would be interested in. That may be difficult given how that level of public conversation is laden with (errant) graphics talk.

Including D-pad the X360 controller has 15 buttons + 2 Analogue sticks.

For a non-gamer, that's ridiculous.

Yes, it is. Thank God games do not have to use all of them. A lot of the "too complex" claims are directed at MS and Sony, but they should be directed at developers. If there's really a market there to grab, they should grab it. The standard controller having more buttons than are used really should not be an insurmountable obstacle.

And if we're really arguing appearance of difficulty here, why is the wand exempt? You think the average person is not reticent to play games with that, just based on appearance? If not for the reason of looking stupid, then for the reason that it's too involved. D-pad, 4 buttons, 1 stick, tilt sensing and positional sensing are also more than a nongamer would go for.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Also, you left out #3, which is that it has to have some sort of "cool" factor.

Of course, it must be marketed properly.

And if we're really arguing appearance of difficulty here, why is the wand exempt?

Because it appears like it's a remote control or no more difficult than a SNES gamepad.

You think the average person is not reticent to play games with that, just based on appearance?

Personally no, I don't think the average person would have a problem based on appearance....I think the biggest question is how will games be controlled that require the motion / tilt sensing?

If not for the reason of looking stupid, then for the reason that it's too involved. D-pad, 4 buttons, 1 stick, tilt sensing and positional sensing are also more than a nongamer would go for.

The biggest question is intuitiveness. IF the tilt / positioning features turn out to be truly intuitive to use as implemented in games...then Nintendo will have succeeded. If it turns out to have a significant learning curve...people just "don't get it" after picking it up and trying it for a couple minutes...then Nintendo is in serious trouble.

 

[expletive]

My personal guess at the 360 core next x-mas will be $250. However, I'm also guessing that it will be a kind of "core-plus". That is, today's core version plus something else thrown in: memory card or a pack-in game.
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=62069

Agreed, but imo any 'plus' version must start with a wireless controller if its going to compete apples-to-apples and head-to-head with the PS3, which will have one standard.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Agreed, but imo any 'plus' version must start with a wireless controller if its going to compete apples-to-apples and head-to-head with the PS3, which will have one standard.

The core will "compete" with the PS3 the same way it competes with the 360 premium version. People will see it as a lower cost alternative to a "full blown" console, and pepople will vote with their wallets as to whether the "full blown" features are worth the premium charged.

 

[jvd]

In the UK the Xbox dropped from £300 to £200 in about 3 months and the DC dropped from £200 to £150 in 6 months (officially it took a year). If you're having no problems selling well then you don't need a price cut.

The Saturn rocked hardest of all though - dropped from £400 to £250 in within about 9 months. Was £200 in about 12.

Not only that but the xbox 360 is already at 350usd in japan . Thats the premium package. So its obvious that ms can lower the price.

 

[jvd]

My personal guess at the 360 core next x-mas will be $250. However, I'm also guessing that it will be a kind of "core-plus". That is, today's core version plus something else thrown in: memory card or a pack-in game.

aye the whole point of the core is to get the price down as quickly as possible for the casual gamers .

I'm expecting 250$ core , 350$ premium (sans remote), 400$ ps3

 

[Ooh-videogames]

Accepting what Nintendo deciding to put in the Revolution(GPU), considering the likelyhood that Hollywood will be a SM 3.0 part.

We know the GPU is atlest 300MHZ(or higher), so what features present in SM3.0 will not be possible on the Revolution?

What is to memory intensive(bandwidth)?

I would like a guess on texture resolution.

What are the chances of a increase in main memory?

 

[expletive]

The core will "compete" with the PS3 the same way it competes with the 360 premium version. People will see it as a lower cost alternative to a "full blown" console, and pepople will vote with their wallets as to whether the "full blown" features are worth the premium charged.

By not including a wireless controller, they run the risk of having consumers be confused as to whether or not theyre getting 'value' with the 360. I think it would be a mistake to give consumers the opportunity to say something like:

"yeah its $100 cheaper but i have to buy a wireless controller with the 360 so its really only $50 more for the PS3, and i get blu ray..."

 

[Branduil]

512x512 would be a sufficient texture resolution in most cases for 480p, wouldn't it?

 

[jvd]

"yeah its $100 cheaper but i have to buy a wireless controller with the 360 so its really only $50 more for the PS3, and i get blu ray..."

Perhaps . But that is only if its 100$ cheaper .

Anyway with the ps3 you get a controller and bluray vs 2 controllers on the core of the xbox 360 with your example .

Its the premium that will compete against the ps3 and the value is much diffrent there . You get a hardrive , wireless controller and a head set with the system. ALong with both sd cables and hdtv cables , a free month of xbox live , a free game and alot of demos .


Then you have to add in the cost of software which many of you are forgeting .

If the ps3 launches in the usa and europe towards holiday 2006 , most of the launch titles on the xbox 360 will be million sellers and most likely 20-30$ .

So the total package will be very diffrent.

You can be looking at a 250$ core vs a 400$ ps3. You loose out on a wireless controller (perhaps we don't know yet) and bluray. However u have a 150$ for games. At 20$ a pop for launch games you can get 2 launch games , gears of war and a memory card and have money left over . Thats if the memory cards dont' drop in price.

Or if the premium is 350 vs a 400$ ps3 you can get a premium with gears of war or a premium and 2 launch games . Or the ps3 with no game .


So once again its more than just the price of the actual hardware . In some ways the xbox 360 core could be cheaper or very close to the revolutions price .

 

[Joe DeFuria]

"yeah its $100 cheaper but i have to buy a wireless controller with the 360 so its really only $50 more for the PS3, and i get blu ray..."

I really don't get what you're saying.

If you get a 360 core plus a wireless controller, you have two controllers.

Like I said, the 360 core will compete with the PS3 the same way the core competes with the premium.

 

[Refreshment]

Having the GC at 100 less than the competition and a stellar line up in 2002 didnt do much for Nintendo.

Now they actually arrive with the console with the biggest procesing gap (in the same generation) we have seen resently at a later date than the others.

I think they can do better with the specs. No matter how much they try to stir away from MS or Sony the comparisons will be made.

 

[Ooh-videogames]

What does Quad means in relation to 1T-Sram-Q?

I just have a very uneducated guess of 40 GB texture read bandwidth.

 

[expletive]

I really don't get what you're saying.

If you get a 360 core plus a wireless controller, you have two controllers.

Like I said, the 360 core will compete with the PS3 the same way the core competes with the premium.

Yes but a lot of people have a setup now where the console is far enough away from the couch where wired controller is a huge inconvenience.

Sorry i wasnt clearer.

I didnt realize the core DID compete with the premium. From what i hear, its 4-1 premium to core and would be higher had the additional premiums been available.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Yes but a lot of people have a setup now where the console is far enough away from the couch where wired controller is a huge inconvenience.

Doesn't change my point. People look at the packages, and then make their choice. One final time: MS's core unit will be competing against the PS3 in the same way that the core unit competes against the 360 premium.

 

[expletive]

Doesn't change my point. People look at the packages, and then make their choice. One final time: MS's core unit will be competing against the PS3 in the same way that the core unit competes against the 360 premium.

See my edit

 

[scooby_dooby]

Yes, it is. Thank God games do not have to use all of them. A lot of the "too complex" claims are directed at MS and Sony, but they should be directed at developers. If there's really a market there to grab, they should grab it. The standard controller having more buttons than are used really should not be an insurmountable obstacle..

Just to give another example of complicated games, has anyone played NHL 2K6?

it uses the left trigger to "modify" the button, meaning many buttons get a 2nd value when pressing left trigger. That, combined with completely different controls on offense and defense, including custom goalie controls, means the game must have somewhere around 40 or 50 different buttons!

I mean that's just plain complicated, I love it because it gives you so much control over the players, and acts like a true hockey 'sim', but it's a great example of how complicated games are getting now.

Compare that to Ice Hockey on the nes, 2 buttons, your team consisted of a fat guy, medium guy or skinny guy and that was it.

Nintendo is on to something, however, they have to prove that there is actually a market among the non-gamers for more simplified games. They also have to compete with the internet which is full of simple games for non-gamers.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Doesn't change my point. People look at the packages, and then make their choice. One final time: MS's core unit will be competing against the PS3 in the same way that the core unit competes against the 360 premium.

I hear expletives point though. If the core came with a wireless controller, than in te eyes of most consumers the PS3 would have no tangible benefits over the 360.

It would have small stuff, like a BR player (which many will not care about one bit), or built-in wi-fi. But for the most part they will not see an immediate advantage to one or the other.

If you strap the core with a wired controller on your lower priced unit, then you automatically give away a huge selling point(huge in the eyes of the uninformed casual gamer) to the PS3, for the cost of only a couple of dollars.

I think MS would be wise to bundle the core with a wireless controller(not now, but next year), that way there is even less justification for people to splurge on the much more expensive PS3.

For example consider a current PS2 owner, in stores on x-mas. Lets assume everything is on the shelf. Maybe he can't quite afford PS3, but find the idea of a wireless controller very novel. He'll look at the core, wired and think "Man..that core is a really good deal but I should really go for the premium cause I want a wireless controller" but then he'll think "Well shit...if I'm gonna spend $300, I might as well get the PS3 cause that's what I REALLY want and it's only $100 more."

It just makes the Core package much more attractive.

I just think wireless controller is a bigger selling point to most casuals than any of this other stuff (media extender, BR support, digital photos support etc etc)

 

[Refreshment]

But you can still have simple games on the advanced consoles.

Lets just say that if theres a hughe market shift toward simple games, there wont be much problem for developers to make the proper adjustments on Sony or MS consoles; while at the same timing catering to the "traditional"market.