Revolution Tech Details Emerge ( Xbox1+ performance, 128 MB RAM )

[mckmas8808]

That price gap between the revolution and the 360 core system will be critical. MS is bringing a lot of value-add services and mass appeal games to the table as well, so that battle will be interesting.

When you look at it, MS could be sandwiched int he middle. They may end not being the cheapest by $100 or the most expensive by $100 (e.g. Rev=200, 360=300, ps3=400). The question i have is... Is that good or bad? Do they become 'everything to everyone' or 'nothing for anyone'?

Great, great post. Perfect questions. I guess only time will tell. Who knows what will happen in 5 years. I don't think the gaming world has ever seen 3 compeititors looking at next-gen so differently.

I will post something that I read someone else say on another board that I thought was a smart post.

Given these specs they could've easily surpassed them without going for broke like sony/ms. 2Ghz+dual-core and at least 400Mhz modern US gpu, not to mention 256MB. With that they'd probably be able to release it for around 200 or slightly lower considering they're releasing a full year after 360.

How many people agree with the above quote? Do you wish the above quote was the true news given out tonight?

 

[Lycan]

Strange perspective indeed. But these are mere rumours, aren't they ?

 

[expletive]

How many people agree with the above quote? Do you wish the above quote was the true news given out tonight?

First of off you(read:we) have to make the leap that Nintendo could have actually done all that for another $50 or so, which i'm not sure is true. BUt for now lets go with it.

I think the question that gets asked in the design meetings is this:

"Based on our requirements (in this case a major one was standard def) does spending X more dollars on the BOM give us an order of magnitude increase in perceived and/or real performance? "

My guess is that $50 more wouldnt do that, especially at SD resolutions. Nintendo, just like MS, figured out what gaming experiences they would need throughout this generation FIRST, and then figured out whats the least they could spend to achieve that. In the end, they could have decided the $50, while nice on paper, didnt buy them anything 'extra' in terms of their strategy.

 

[mckmas8808]

Strange perspective indeed. But these are mere rumours, aren't they ?

No mere rumors, this is what devs working on Rev games told Matt. They basically told him what Nintendo told them (being the devs).

Another question. How can the Rev be released at $99 when it will have alot of extras that will add up like WiFi, DVD drive, Flash storage, RevMote, etc?

 

[expletive]

Another question. How can the Rev be released at $99 when it will have alot of extras that will add up like WiFi, DVD drive, Flash storage, RevMote, etc?

I think youre right, i dont think it can. $149 would be the price to guarentee clear seperation from the 360 and still probably keep them 'in the black' on the hardware.

 

[Lycan]

No mere rumors, this is what devs working on Rev games told Matt. They basically told him what Nintendo told them (being the devs).

Another question. How can the Rev be released at $99 when it will have alot of extras that will add up like WiFi, DVD drive, Flash storage, RevMote, etc?

We all figured out that Nintendo's move will be a major departure, but these specs are just incredibly low. Well, at least it has the merit of proving (if the specs happen to be true) that Nintendo is confident in its strategic shift : The added value of the interface should offset the costs inherent with the extra-tech; and this interface has not revealed all its secrets yet !

PS : I think that the Flash Storage, Revmote...will justify a $150 - $200.

 

[darkblu]

What make you think it will be a unified memory pool for the GPU and not the same config like Flipper has ?

by a video memory pool i meant flipper's local video memory. i used the word 'pool' without any special load.

As for memory, 4x the original, what about bandwidth ? 2x ?

very darn hard to say, as the final clocks and therefore bindwidth will be a product of the 1tsram/south bus, cpu _and_ flipper/north bus clocks combined. remember how the original flipper effectively became the system's clock determinig factor?

And within the limited scope of things (Without slapping a R520 base GPU), what can be enhanced in regard to Flipper design ? With 3 MB eDRAM, perhaps support for something like FP10 for limited HDR support ? Multiple layers of texture without cutting into the fillrate ?

for one, fp10 is promoted by xenos as a totally valid hdr format, i don't see a reason why flipper2 would not use that format.

otherwise i'm not an expert on flipper so i would not know what were the greatest bottlenecks in the original design that could've been addressed in a re-iteration. but the original flipper demonstrated quite some fillrate out there in the field, and if we take xb360's framebuffer desing 'borrowing' from flipper as any indication of merits..

Knowing Capcom, they probably just port RE4 again (perhaps the PS2 version) to Revolution, now with Revo controller implememented.

i do hope you're wrong ; )

 

[mckmas8808]

Another question guys. Does the usable amount of RAM really equal 88 MBs?

 

[mckmas8808]

If the following avi shows what the Revolution will bring us then I'll be a little disappointed. Give me Halo3, GT5, Heavenly Sword, or Mass Effect any day.

ftp://www.jeux-france.com/Nintendo_Revolution/Mazan_Flash_of_the_Blade_1.avi

 

[darkblu]

so... no OOOe?

what do you mean no oooe? gekko was oooe already.

 

[winstonsmith1978]

That price gap between the revolution and the 360 core system will be critical. MS is bringing a lot of value-add services and mass appeal games to the table as well, so that battle will be interesting.

When you look at it, MS could be sandwiched int he middle. They may end not being the cheapest by $100 or the most expensive by $100 (e.g. Rev=200, 360=300, ps3=400). The question i have is... Is that good or bad? Do they become 'everything to everyone' or 'nothing for anyone'?

I might get some nasty comments on this but i think the x360 loses all markets when the other two systems are released. "nothing for anyone."

if you want it all, the PS3 just offers more with blu-ray, linux, hdmi, 1080p, sd/cf/and memory stick memory, more usb2 ports which are needed if this thing really is a linux computer etc, etc.

if you want a budget system then Revolution has got you covered along with very unique gameplay.

the 360 doesn't have a budget market, especially after you start adding up all the extra costs and it doesn't have all the bells and whistles for the technology boys.

But the games could win in the end. I'm liking Too Human and Mass Effect as 2 games that might win me over.

 

[Branduil]

No mere rumors, this is what devs working on Rev games told Matt. They basically told him what Nintendo told them (being the devs).

Another question. How can the Rev be released at $99 when it will have alot of extras that will add up like WiFi, DVD drive, Flash storage, RevMote, etc?

Which devs? Also, how do we know they weren't misinterpreting the fact that Nintendo has them working on GC dev kits?

 

[Inane_Dork]

Well, now we know for sure why Factor 5 and Silicon Knights departed.

I wonder if MS or Sony have the guts to package their systems with Nintendo's. If Nintendo is really serious about being the second console, I think they would accept such an arrangement. Surely it would be one of the biggest PR stunts ever.

That being said, it would be interesting to hear Mark Rein comment on the Revolution....I would actually assume that the GC could run UE3 engine...but you'd have to tone the quality way down to the point where it would pale in comparison to what would be seen on PS3 / 360.

UE3 runs on SM2.0 and greater. It would not run on the GC unless you specifically ported it by removing any dependence on such hardware.

Anyway, I would guess that since Rein took Merrick's challenge almost instantly and Epic had yet to receive a dev kit by Zero Hour or get any update, Nintendo doesn't expect the Rev hardware to run UE3.0 without backporting (which I get the strong feeling that Epic will *not* do). And why should they? They're getting contracts left and right and Epic games are among the best looking titles in existence. As an engine maker, they already struck gold.

Read it again...Lack of 3rd party ports is not necessarily a bad thing.

By the same token, presence of 3rd party exclusives are not necessarily a good thing. Both statements, though, are basically worthless. They are statements of possibility and but pretty darn improbable. Think the Cube would have gotten RE4 if it had been an N64++? Or how about Sonic? Rogue Leader, perhaps? Viewtiful Joe? Many notable 3rd party games on the Cube eventually made it to other platforms. Developers now know this porting is barely a feasible option. There's no safety net.

So yeah, lack of 3rd party ports is not necessarily a bad thing. But then again, there's no way it can be a good thing. And in most every conceivable situation, it is a bad thing.

 

[mckmas8808]

Guys we should just stop talking about the possibilites of the Revolution being $99. Besides the fact that it would be priced higher or the same as the DS, seemingly impossible being that the controller itself might cost $30, it has WiFi, DVD drive, and a 512MB flash memory imbedded look at this article written 6 years ago.

July 7, 1999

In this months issue of Next Generation Magazine, Nintendo of America Chairman, Howard Lincoln, blatantly states, "You will not be able to play audio CDs on Nintendo's machine, and you will not be able to play movies". He goes on to explain that Nintendo is sincerely a videogame company and as a result, "that's exactly what our device will do - play the best video games around". He also states that the Nintendo Dolphin would feature an aggressive price point. Next Generation Magazine goes on to publish an aforementioned rumor stating the Nintendo Dolphin may have a launch price as low as $99. It�s an absurd idea but many are holding onto the possibility of it being true.
July 9, 1999

http://www.n-sider.com/articleview.php?articleid=268

Now we all now that, that didn't happen. And actually the system was sold for $199. Just face it guys a $149 or maybe a $199 is more likely.

 

[Magnum PI]

if i understand well, when used on a 480p display a xbox still uses a 1280x720 framebuffer.
that's exactly three times the used pixel that are rendered.
in a way you only use 30% of xbox360 capacity on a 480p display.

so , when both are used on a 480p or a 480i display , despite the lack of powerhorse of the revolution, the final result could be not that much different.

 

[nihilistcanada]

Hmmn, lets assume it is true. So what is Nintendo offering to the consumers that would make them buy it? Lets pick a $149 to 199 price point as $99 seems to good to be true.

How about that back catalog? Offer all the old back catalog to be downloaded free. Just make the 512mb something seriously locked down and sold for $50 bucks. Nintendo would make money selling those, the back catalog is already there and paid for.

I don't know about you guys but if I could fill a card up with legal Nintendo roms for 50 bucks I would.

Throw in the new controller and all it brings to the party and you have got a hit regardless of how powerful it is.

 

[mckmas8808]

My predictions.

Rev- $199
DS SP- $149 (possible next year)
DS- $99
Micro- $75
GBS:SP-$50-$60? (Limited Production)/

 

[Asher]

Broadway is 750-based. It has all of the same performance characteristics for PowerPC 750 instructions (including cycle latencies), but it also has some added instructions and features not in Gekko.

 

[Shogmaster]

Broadway is 750-based. It has all of the same performance characteristics for PowerPC 750 instructions (including cycle latencies), but it also has some added instructions and features not in Gekko.

If you are privy to some insider info, just tell us if Broadway is closer to Gobi (750GX) or Mojave (750VX) or yet another variation. Thanks.

 

[Asher]

If you are privy to some insider info, just tell us if Broadway is closer to Gobi (750GX) or Mojave (750VX) or yet another variation. Thanks.

Good question; and it's closer to the VX for a rather important reason

It does not have all of the features of the 750VX (which do not make sense in a game console, but it has some additional ones that the VX does not have).