Returnal (Housemarque) [PS5, PC]

[arandomguy]

Was this always the issue though?

How about similar to or part of the installation, there is a shader installation before you start the game, where it detects your hardware and pre installs based on those, so that doesnt happen during game?
The way you describe it, sounds like it is an almost unsovable common problem because of the nature of PCs

It depends on what you consider the issue is. The core issue was there but it wasn't as a much an issue in practice due to a combination of factors. The API pipeline (and therefore driver impact), development pipeline, complexity and focus (eg. the development side has been pushed to be more asset/art friendly for lack of a better term), and shader complexity is different now which has pushed the issue as a problem now in practice.

As for is it solvable, based on the current situation it seems complex. I think it's more accurate to say it isn't straight forward solvable in the way you can do it with the consoles. This in itself is a problem as a large part (and likely the greatest majority of the player and user base) basically finds it solved, and even on the PC user base side not everyone finds it an issue. So from a practical perspective this causes problems in terms of the amount of urgency in solving the issue against the complexity of doing so.

If we look at some of the possible solutions proposed they aren't really straight forward. Compiling shaders at startup/install/etc. isn't technically straight forward to implement and could (will likely) be a rather heavy task in terms of CPU time, which is likely going to be rather divisive in terms of opinion. Another option would be to do it asynchronously during play, but this wouldn't be a panacea either in terms of either solving the stutter issue.

You can also precompile to some extent like the consoles for PC games despite the limitations, we have examples with the Steam Deck and Geforce Now instances. However the caveat is huge due to it needing to be host hardware and driver specific which means you obviously can't do this for every permutation. What could be done is supplying it at least for some "popular" permutations, whether by the game developer, IHV, or even game distributor (eg. some are proposing Steam do this). A further downside with this is also the possible optics as you'd have to basically choose the "popular" configurations. By this I mean say if Returnal supplied precompiled shaders for the RTX 3060 Driver 528.49 only (or some subset of combinations), what would the reaction be?

 

[Remij]

So I've been playing this, and honestly if you turn RT off, there's basically no stuttering (for me).. Game looks incredible at high resolutions. This is better than the PS5 version lol. The dualsense features are awesome too. Feels so good.

 

[davis.anthony]

Because PC gamers accept this shit and have done so for far too long.

For far too long? It's only really been the last few years and it doesn't happen in every game.

And it boils down to this question really, how many casual PC gamers actual give a shit about it?

Casual console gamers are happy with 30fps (with dips) and low resolutions as they just play the game as they don't care nor understand the technical stuff.

It's the same for casual PC gamers, they just play the game and have no interest in the technical side of it.

And that's the problem, out side of places like this forum where we now about stutters and understand why they occur it's not talked about enough across the PC gaming community as a whole nor affecting game sales enough for developers to care.

 

[Seanspeed]

I still cant believe some people think the issue is that 'developers dont care'. Of course they care. They haven't all just gotten collectively lazy in recent years. There are specific problems causing this to become a more common issue nowadays. And if it were easy to fix, of course they would do it. They are not unaware that good and stable performance matters to people, come on now.

 

[Dampf]

So much for hardware accelerated Global Illumination on PS5. Either that was a lie, or they removed it for whatever reason on PC.

Disappointed. I thought this game would be the first, aside from Metro EE of course, to make use of HW-Raytracing in a meaningful way. (Not talking about dedicated settings but actually integrated RT into the game engine)

 

[cheapchips]

Disappointed. I thought this game would be the first (aside from Metro EE) to make use of HW-Raytracing in a meaningful way. (Not talking about dedicated settings but actually integrated RT into the game engine)

It's UE4, so it'd be pretty unlikely if it was.

 

[trinibwoy]

So I've been playing this, and honestly if you turn RT off, there's basically no stuttering (for me).. Game looks incredible at high resolutions. This is better than the PS5 version lol. The dualsense features are awesome too. Feels so good.

Dualsense works on PC? That’s pretty cool.

 

[pjbliverpool]

So much for hardware accelerated Global Illumination on PS5. Either that was a lie, or they removed it for whatever reason on PC.

Disappointed. I thought this game would be the first, aside from Metro EE of course, to make use of HW-Raytracing in a meaningful way. (Not talking about dedicated settings but actually integrated RT into the game engine)

I'd hardly call what Returnal is doing on the PS5 using the RT hardware in a meaningful way moreso than any other RT implementation. It's not actually being used to display any Ray Traced graphics at all. They're simply using it to speed up the software GI implementation and the 3D audio. This sounds like a pretty custom use case for the RT hardware so perhaps it's simply not possible to do via DX as it was with the PS5's more flexible API.

On the PC you do actually get to use the RT hardware to output some pretty significant Ray Traced effects though. Personally I'd say that's quite a bit more meaningful of a use than what the PS5 is using it for.

 

[troyan]

And a RTX3060 and RTX2070S are getting more than 60FPS in 1080p with Raytracing: https://www.computerbase.de/2023-02...ll_hd_wqhd_und_ultra_hd_mit_raytracing_update

 

[davis.anthony]

Looking at some of the performance metrics for various PC GPU's without ray tracing on there seems to be GPU's that are weaker than PS5's GPU but offering better performance

 

[davis.anthony]

Just tried it for 20 minutes - I didn't know it supported VRS as I've not seen anyone mention it.

It performs so well, EPIC settings (Will need to wait to see how they compare to PS5) at native 1440p and I fluctuate between 100-120fps.

DLSS Quality makes it 120fps although curious it will still drop to 117fps for some odd reason, stutters are next to none existent.

At native 1080p (So PS5's resolution) I'm getting close to 3x the frame rate that PS5 is getting and at likely higher settings too.

Unfortunately my 4070ti is off back to the retailer to be tested so it'll be a week now before I get to play it properly.

 

[Remij]

Yeah, honestly the game has been performing great for me so far. It's way better than the PS5 version I played/watched at my friends place. Hopefully some quick patches can fix up any remaining issues some people are having.

 

[Clukos]

Runs smooth like butter on my PC, having a blast (again). Second run I reached the 3rd biome, muscle memory kicking in fast

 

[davis.anthony]

Some kind of CPU limitation as I'm dropping below 100fps but GPU use is well below 100%, game doesn't seem to use a lot of cores.

Her face still looks weird as shit though, like the shading isn't right on her visa.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Yeah, honestly the game has been performing great for me so far. It's way better than the PS5 version I played/watched at my friends place. Hopefully some quick patches can fix up any remaining issues some people are having.

It also doesn't help the PS5 version being stuck with a trash upscaling solution destroying such good art assets

 

[Remij]

It also doesn't help the PS5 version being stuck with a trash upscaling solution destroying such good art assets

Yea it really makes quite the difference as you get up to 4K+ resolutions. Seeing this games visuals and environments on an Ultrawide monitor at high resolutions is quite breathtaking at times.

Going to really be diving in this weekend and should have some pics to share. Photomode seems pretty awesome as well.

 

[davis.anthony]

Yea it really makes quite the difference as you get up to 4K+ resolutions. Seeing this games visuals and environments on an Ultrawide monitor at high resolutions is quite breathtaking at times.

Going to really be diving in this weekend and should have some pics to share. Photomode seems pretty awesome as well.

You tried it with HDR? Jaw dropping!

 

[Remij]

You tried it with HDR? Jaw dropping!

I have an OLED but I currently don't have my PC connected to it. Probably do that at some point this weekend and bask in the glory.

 

[BRiT]

Her face still looks weird as shit though, like the shading isn't right on her visa.

Yes. Something is very wrong every now and then where the face is just so wrong.

 

[Nesh]

Some kind of CPU limitation as I'm dropping below 100fps but GPU use is well below 100%, game doesn't seem to use a lot of cores.

Her face still looks weird as shit though, like the shading isn't right on her visa.

I am still dreaming that one day games will have high precission lighting and high fidelity detail on models during gameplay, that characters will exhibit the same quality as during cut scenes