Replacing Dual Shock 2

[Acert93]

If you watch the videos that the company showed it demonstrated why TBs are nice--smooth, percise aim. You move the ball an inch your player moves and inch--and stops. Whereas with a controller if you move and inch and stay there you keep moving forever.

There are advantages and disadvantages, but in FPS (which I play a lot of and do quite well) I can say a TB has as good, if not better, feel than a mouse. I would take a mouse or TB over a joystick for a FPS any day (one of the intended uses of this device).

This is silly. For an example, you choose a FPS designed purposely for a PC to rate a trackball's performance on a console. We are talking about a standard controller. I would really like to see such a design work in something like Tekken or DOA.

1. One of the primary markets for the controller is for console FPS. I even explicitly note such above. Watch the recently posted video. But now that I think about it, a device like this would be great on the PC for gamers who find a KB/MS setup hard to get used to.

2. I have no clue how it would mess up a fighter; while it may not jive with all game formats, it does resolve a problem for the popular FPS genre.

I don't know about you, but I'm sure there are many that don't find any interest in cleaning out their controller ever other time it is used. Think about the analogue stick for a second. How many do you know enjoys cleaning that thing when it gets dirty and sweaty? Yet, that's more accessible than the crud under a trackball. That doesn't even count for this ball getting lost or chipped if you're careless enough causing you to replace the entire controller. And trust me, I have seen this happen many times before with the mouse.

By the way, I do have a trackball, and although it comes in great handy for a PC, it would make a horrendous idea for a standard controller. As I said before, it would cause more problems than it would actually solve.

You claim to have a trackball, but your statements are completely inaccruate. You do not need to clean a TrackBall "every other time it is used". Not even close. I work at my computer 8-12hrs a day, 6 days a week. I have used both Optical and Standard Trackballs for over 10 years as my primary input device. I also have very sweaty hands and feet--far worse than anyone I know. Yet I do not need to clean my devices out but every couple weeks at most. And the Optical TBs take a single swipe with a tissue and it is clean. My wife will go months before cleaning her TB out and I would classify her use a bit more normal.

As for accessibility, like I mentioned before, all you do is pop the ball out. Go to Staples and test a Marble Mouse Trackball. The ball is very secure, but it pops out when pulled on. This is MUCH easier than cleaning an analog stick--which I have had break down numerous times. It is not like dual sticks is a perfected design with no design flaws.

Obviously YOU are not the intended market for this device. This is meant for smooth and accurate pin point control in FPS. Obviously this device wont fulfill your fighting genre yearnings (for some reason), but a LOT of gamers have issues with dual sticks for FPS. A linearly controlled input device, like a TB ball, would give more control to many gamers.

At least that is what the video demonstrates. Again, not a device intended for all games, but meant to improve the FPS experience on the Consoles.

 

[Almasy]

Well, a console controller is supposed to be designed to work efficiently with as many genres as possible. What´s the point of including a trackball then if it´s only meant to please a few geeky FPS fans then?

 

[PC-Engine]

Well, a console controller is supposed to be designed to work efficiently with as many genres as possible. What´s the point of including a trackball then if it´s only meant to please a few geeky FPS fans then?

Maybe to prove their geekiness by having balls.

 

[ShootMyMonkey]

Maybe to prove their geekiness by having balls.

I would have thought that the caffeine content of "bawls" would have deemed it more worthy as an indicator of geekiness. Still, it's not as if bawls holds a candle to coffee as far as caffeine content, but the problem with coffee is that it's associated more to wealthy yuppies with prissy palates than to geeks. Dew still holds the geek crown in spite of having only about half the caffeine content of a small cup of coffee.

I'm surprised that no one yet made the joke about the fact that trackballs are an almost completely revolutionary input device. Now that would be geeky.

 

[Squeak]

Well, a console controller is supposed to be designed to work efficiently with as many genres as possible. What´s the point of including a trackball then if it´s only meant to please a few geeky FPS fans then?

It would be good for virtually any game that uses a movable camera, which is quite a few. Also for menus and selections it would advantageous.

 

[Acert93]

Well, a console controller is supposed to be designed to work efficiently with as many genres as possible. What´s the point of including a trackball then if it´s only meant to please a few geeky FPS fans then?

Your right. I am going to contact Logitech, Madcatz, Pelican, and so forth and tell them to discontinue all:

• Racing wheels
• Fighting sticks
• Joysticks
• Dance pads
• Light guns
• Any and all other specialized control pads

Sorry, I could not hold back my sarcasm there

Sieriously, a trackball may hinder some games but it is much better suited for a lot of genres. Besides the slew of 1st and 3rd person game, a TB is great for RTS style games (with HD next gen we may see more of these) or any game that requires smooth linear use of a control pad.

Sure, it wont be the end-all be-all control solution. But (1) It was never said to be such and (2) current controllers are far from being the "perfect" solution and have their own serious pit falls. Current controllers have clear weaknesses and if another controller can step in and fill the void that is great.

What´s the point of including a trackball then if it´s only meant to please a few geeky FPS fans then?

If there is room for speciality controllers like fighting sticks, driving wheels/pedals, and flight sim joy sticks, there is definately room for a trackball game pad for the widely popular FPS genre.

 

[DigitalSoul]

Sure the track ball would be a good "special" controllers, though I doubt a lot of console gamers would think much of. I'm not the type who spends money on special controllers to play a certain genre of games. In terms of FPS, the Xbox controller works fine that( maybe I cause I've gotten use to it ).

Really though, how many gamers actually buy these special controllers?

 

[Acert93]

Really though, how many gamers actually buy these special controllers?

Enough that every major 3rd party controller manufacturer has driving wheels, joysticks, dance pads, traditional arcade fighting sticks, and so forth. I am not saying this is for everyone (I originally said this product mainly focused on FPS genre games), but there is a market for speciality controllers.

Also, put this in the context that a lot of gamers get 1-3 extra controllers. I know I have 4 controllers for my N64 and GCN. I think it is very likely in those situations that if a gamer, who is going to buy 3 extra controllers and likes FPS, that (s)he would pic up a FPS oriented controller.

This is also an olive branch to PC gamers who cannot stand game pads for FPS. Console controllers are a big turn off to these gamers. If a game pad could offer fairly good control that is more similar to PC controls that would be a big boost for them. I might even venture to guess that with the PC periphrial market that something like this may even appeal to some PC gamers on the PC. It could be easier to pick up for new players. While I love the KB/MS setup I would be willing to pay $25 for something like this.

I know some people love console controllers for FPS, but there are just as many of us who hate them. I think it is great someone is offering a new twist on the classic controller to see help those of us who find a joystick awkward and want more linear movement.

 

[Almasy]

Your right. I am going to contact Logitech, Madcatz, Pelican, and so forth and tell them to discontinue all:

• Racing wheels
• Fighting sticks
• Joysticks
• Dance pads
• Light guns
• Any and all other specialized control pads

Sorry, I could not hold back my sarcasm there

Sieriously, a trackball may hinder some games but it is much better suited for a lot of genres. Besides the slew of 1st and 3rd person game, a TB is great for RTS style games (with HD next gen we may see more of these) or any game that requires smooth linear use of a control pad.

Hey, you sure didn´t get the point.

You talk about including a trackball on STANDARD controllers. Those controllers you posted are specialized input devices, not standard controllers. If all you are proposing is a trackball-equipped controller by third parties for gamers who just absolutely HAVE to have more precision in PC ports of FPS then that´s ok. But...

Sure, it wont be the end-all be-all control solution. But (1) It was never said to be such and (2) current controllers are far from being the "perfect" solution and have their own serious pit falls. Current controllers have clear weaknesses and if another controller can step in and fill the void that is great.

We´re talking about standard controllers here, if you are going to include a solution for a specific genre (PC ports of FPS), then we might as well include a small keyboard for RTS games, a scope, a joystick for flying games and some bongos for music games.

When including a new type of input in a standrad controller, it better have a wide range of applications, if not its useless.

 

[Almasy]

I know some people love console controllers for FPS, but there are just as many of us who hate them. I think it is great someone is offering a new twist on the classic controller to see help those of us who find a joystick awkward and want more linear movement.

Then ask MadCatz for a controller with a trackball then.

Really, I don´t mean to be abrassive to you, but honestly there´s pretty much only two genres on PC, and K&M work great with them because those games were built with that in mind. However, I think it´d be foolish of any console maker to add a trackball just to try to appeal to that specific audience.

 

[kyleb]

When including a new type of input in a standrad controller, it better have a wide range of applications, if not its useless.

But what games wouldn't it be good for? the only issue I can see is with drving games and that could be easly solved with long throw along triggers like what is used the xbox controler.

 

[rabidrabbit]

A trackball that is controlled just with your thumb sounds like it would not be much use for anything.
The movement of the ball would need be relatively small to be fast enough for fps games, or if you'd use it to control something mouse pointer like, the movement would need to be larger.
In fps game the ball would maybe move so that it rotates just under your thumb, without much of that "rolling" movement, where for example to move your view the ball would turn several rounds.
A trackball that's controlled with just one thumb could be too imprecise, it does not work like those trackballs you use on tabletop, where the device already is positioned much more stable than it would be if it were held in your hands.
But I reserve my final judgement if I get my hands on a final device.

 

[Se7en]

From what I could see in that picture, it was a standard PS2 controller with a trackball replacing the right hand analogue stick, right? So, in any fighting game, racing game, or hell even flight sim I've ever played on the PS2 I only ever used the left hand analogue stick and the right hand buttons. Never the right hand stick because I never had to move a camera. For camera centric games I see this as a huge plus, and for non-camera centric games it's just a bit more wight in your hand.

 

[Almasy]

But what games wouldn't it be good for? the only issue I can see is with drving games and that could be easly solved with long throw along triggers like what is used the xbox controler.

The only potential use I see for it is as a replacement for the camera stick in GCN´s pad, and console versions of FPS. Honestly, what other use is there for this kind of device? Like what rabidrabbit said, it would even be too imprecise for something like a RTS game.

Why? Well, the way I see it, it would work like this:

The trackball would have to work with just one thumb, no? Then, if the trackball moves like that, then the speed at which the ball rotates would have to be pretty quick and translate into a lot of movement in the game, if this didn´t happen, then it would simply be too tiring to use it.

This situation would translate into a cursor that moves somewhat rapidly, but that is imprecise as a result. Now, considering the size of individual units in RTS games, the advantage gained by having a trackball is minimized greatly by this inherent imprecision. Therefore, using the analog stick would bring similar results.

Now, what other genre in consoles needs more precision? Racing games? Not really, the analog stick is more than sufficient for this. Adventure games? Helll no. What else, fighting games? Action games, DMC style? No, it just isn´t good for any of them. That really makes it seem like its uses are somewhat restrictive, aren´t they?

Well, guess what? Bingo! It´s true, what a trackball offers is restricted to the realm of precision, and nothing beyond that. It doesn´t offer a new way to control games, nor its inclusion ammounts to anything more than a glorified c-stick (and we all know how well that turned out).

That´s why I don´t like it, and that´s why its inclusion seems more like a campaign by geeky PC FPS fans that want to play console FPS but are just stuck on the idea of using K&M.

My solution for those guys? Ask MadCatz for a controller with a trackball and stop asking for something that only benefits yourself.

 

[kyleb]

Now, what other genre in consoles needs more precision? Racing games? Not really, the analog stick is more than sufficient for this. Adventure games? Helll no. What else, fighting games? Action games, DMC style? No, it just isn´t good for any of them. That really makes it seem like its uses are somewhat restrictive, aren´t they?

Yeah it sounds restrictive when you start listing genres where you wouldn't need the extra precision, but you are overlooking the fact that it wouldn't hurt either.

 

[Cryect]

It might be a good idea, but that's a pretty half-assed implementation they've got there. I mean, they didn't even take the time to make their own case for the controller. Rather, they merely melted part of a regular DS. It looks like an April Fools' joke, to me.

Uhhhh, I hope you aren't serious on the casing... Its completely new and there is so many things that are different that its no way a melted DS2 controller (plus that wouldn't work very well...).

Besides if this was an April Fool's joke it is a pretty elaborate one they started doing few months ago.

 

[Almasy]

Yeah it sounds restrictive when you start listing genres where you wouldn't need the extra precision, but you are overlooking the fact that it wouldn't hurt either.

Then tell me where you would need something like this aside from PC FPS ports?

You also need to remember that when a new function is added to standard controllers, that addition costs money, so companies make sure it´s at least usefull for some genres or create new ones.

What are you going to use a trackball for? A new Mario Paint?

 

[rabidrabbit]

A much better solution than a trackball would be a touch sensitive area in the controller, like what Nintendo is rumoured to include in "Revolution".
It would be accurate enough, even more accurate than a trackball as there would not be the possibility of accidental movement of the ball. A touch screen is also much easier to operate with your thumb.

A touch screen does not need to be flat, square shaped either, it could be a dome shape too, that way there would be more surface area without making the length of travel of your thumb too much.

 

[Fox5]

A much better solution than a trackball would be a touch sensitive area in the controller, like what Nintendo is rumoured to include in "Revolution".
It would be accurate enough, even more accurate than a trackball as there would not be the possibility of accidental movement of the ball. A touch screen is also much easier to operate with your thumb.

A touch screen does not need to be flat, square shaped either, it could be a dome shape too, that way there would be more surface area without making the length of travel of your thumb too much.

Touch screen or touch pad? Wouldn't a round touch screen have to cut off some pixels?

 

[rabidrabbit]

uhh... a touchpad touchscreen combo thingy possibly with some tactile buttons integrated as in iPods.
You can make a circle screen out of square pixels, can you?