*ren* PSN Down, Customer Info Compromised

[Brad Grenz]

I agree with pretty much everything you've said, and the credit point is a very good one. There were 10 million registered CCs in 75 million accounts. Clearly the majority of users who have their data compromised are not PSN content purchasers. A credit they cannot use wouldn't go down well. $5 to spend on themes wouldn't be anything like as appreciated as a whole game such as LBP or Infamous. However, I disagree with the one above quoted point. You and Joker are on opposite sides, and I sit somewhere in the middle. I agree Sony couldn't have been as free and flexible in their compensation as effectively giving everyone free money, but they could have extended the range of titles at next-to-no extra cost beyond the 5 PS3 titles on offer to give a wider choice. That would please more people than the current deal has, while not costing what a free credit as Joker suggests would, which seems a better compromise. Although Joker will say a finite list of titles may have no value for some customers, I think the greater majority by far would be acceptable given the circumstances.

The way I see it:
Current solution - benefits ~80% of PS3 owners - little cost to Sony
Joker's solution - benefits ~100% of PS3 owners - unaffordable cost to Sony
My solution - benefits ~95% of PS3 owners - little cost beyond current solution

Obviously the percentage figures are entirely made up by myself, and if Sony can be confident that a very high percentage of PS3 owners are satisfied with the 5 games on offer, they may feel that's okay. But me personally, I'd want those avid fans, the key platform supporters, to feel satisfied too, and I'd stretch a little to offer them something rather than just going by a heartless metric. I think the goodwill of such a gesture is worth it.

Yeah, I'd argue with your numbers. For one, I think it's likely Sony had to negotiate one time lump sum payments to the developers behind every game in the offer, including companies like Insomniac and Housemarque which they do not own, and internal studio where the employees are nonetheless due royalties/bonuses. I also think Phil is correct in his assertion that Joker's proposal actually benefits more users less than the current deal. I'd break down the numbers more like this:

Current solution - benefits ~98% of PS3 owners - some cost to Sony
Joker's solution - benefits ~100% of PS3 owners, but 98% are actually getting less than they would under the current deal - crippling cost to Sony
Shifty's solution - benefits ~99.99999% of PS3 owners - doubles cost beyond current solution, law of diminishing returns...

And the thing is, even if they double their expenses going after that last couple percent, there will still be a PR problem because any jackass, whether he owns a PS3 or not, whether he was affected by the hack or not, can go on the internet and bitch about the deal not being good enough. And it won't have anything to do with whether or not the deal was fair or equitable or adequate, it will just be about bad mouthing a company they don't like.

 

[mrcorbo]

Yeah, I'd argue with your numbers. For one, I think it's likely Sony had to negotiate one time lump sum payments to the developers behind every game in the offer, including companies like Insomniac and Housemarque which they do not own, and internal studio where the employees are nonetheless due royalties/bonuses. I also think Phil is correct in his assertion that Joker's proposal actually benefits more users less than the current deal. I'd break down the numbers more like this:

Current solution - benefits ~98% of PS3 owners - some cost to Sony
Joker's solution - benefits ~100% of PS3 owners, but 98% are actually getting less than they would under the current deal - crippling cost to Sony
Shifty's solution - benefits ~99.99999% of PS3 owners - doubles cost beyond current solution, law of diminishing returns...

And the thing is, even if they double their expenses going after that last couple percent, there will still be a PR problem because any jackass, whether he owns a PS3 or not, whether he was affected by the hack or not, can go on the internet and bitch about the deal not being good enough. And it won't have anything to do with whether or not the deal was fair or equitable or adequate, it will just be about bad mouthing a company they don't like.

Surely. And just as surely there will be be some *persons* who, whether they are affected by the hack or not, will go on the internet and praise what a great deal it is. And it won't have anything to do with whether the deal is fair or equitable or adequate, it will just be about praising a company they like.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Surely. And just as surely there will be be some *persons* who, whether they are affected by the hack or not, will go on the internet and praise what a great deal it is. And it won't have anything to do with whether the deal is fair or equitable or adequate, it will just be about praising a company they like.

That's going off topic. The nature of the internet is sufficiently understood for us not to dwell on it, and produce pages of OT gobbledook. Irrespective of where the grumblers are heard, grumblers exist, and people grumble more than praise. For this conversation, and all subsequent conversations, we can filter out the fanboy element - those who will always uphold their preferred company's actions and/or always hate the oppositions - and just focus on the rest of the world who aren't so affiliated, aren't blindly following anyone, and who make up a dynamic market that companies have to court and maintain or lose those customers allegiance.

 

[-tkf-]

Joker,

My angle in this has always been that the 'welcome gift' is adequate. You've been the one here constantly implying that fans are arguing that anyone should be greatful.

Greate post, i think you nailed the points solid to the wall for everyone to read and understand, couldn´t agree more.

 

[dobwal]

It doesn't really matter what Sony does to limit the grumbling of its userbase. A gift basket might make it easier to forgive Sony, it will do little to re-instill trust that was lost. And trust is whats going to affect PSN's financial viability in the long run.

Sony can give me the whole PS3 library for free but whether or not I give my CC to PSN again will depend on if I feel Sony maintains a strong effort to protect my data. Sony can start by giving non compromising info on how PSN's security has been strengthened. Telling me that they now encrypt all my data would be a good start.

 

[joker454]

My angle in this has always been that the 'welcome gift' is adequate. You've been the one here constantly implying that fans are arguing that anyone should be greatful. There's a difference. You're the one here arguing that offering credits would be a lot better. I clearly disagree and included some numbers to play with to underline why it's not a good idea, heck why it isn't feasable. Don't like the numbers? Change them.

Looks like we just plain disagree then. Not only do I see it as inadequate, but it also does little to encourage people to re-enter in their credit card data back on psn, something they should have been thinking very strongly about. So it's fail on both sides, fail to consumers and fail to Sony itself. I really don't get it, it's a bizarre behavior to me for a large corporation but whatever. At least they should have given out codes to download the old stuff, then I could have posted my codes here so at least someone could use them. Probably would have created a new economy of people selling their worthless download codes on ebay, I imagine there would be millions of them being sold.

 

[temesgen]

here is a link to a article written by Gamespot that discusses a recent survey of PSN users to assess their feelings about the breach:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/631530...-face-of-psn-outage-study?tag=newstop;title;2

 

[BadTB25]

It doesn't really matter what Sony does to limit the grumbling of its userbase. A gift basket might make it easier to forgive Sony, it will do little to re-instill trust that was lost. And trust is whats going to affect PSN's financial viability in the long run.

Sony can give me the whole PS3 library for free but whether or not I give my CC to PSN again will depend on if I feel Sony maintains a strong effort to protect my data. Sony can start by giving non compromising info on how PSN's security has been strengthened. Telling me that they now encrypt all my data would be a good start.

I agree.
I'm not mad about the down PSN time or compensation package. I just want to make sure my info is secure.

 

[AntShaw]

here is a link to a article written by Gamespot that discusses a recent survey of PSN users to assess their feelings about the breach:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/631530...-face-of-psn-outage-study?tag=newstop;title;2

I find these numbers to be somewhat misleading. Of course a majority of the people aren't concerned because a majority of the people never purchased or stored any sensitive information on the network. So of course the majority won't have any issues continuing to use PSN, and in turn have no issues with the Welcome Back pack.

I stand solely on the side with Joker on this one.

I've done the only thing I can do, and that is switch to XBL for purchasing all my cross platform games. Since the outage, so far that's been Clash of Heroes and Gatling Gears. Both of which, I would of purchased on PSN before the breach. Since they've done nothing to entice me to come back to their service, I'll continue to purchase all my future cross platform downloadable games on XBL.

 

[temesgen]

I find these numbers to be somewhat misleading. Of course a majority of the people aren't concerned because a majority of the people never purchased or stored any sensitive information on the network. So of course the majority won't have any issues continuing to use PSN, and in turn have no issues with the Welcome Back pack.

I stand solely on the side with Joker on this one.

I've done the only thing I can do, and that is switch to XBL for purchasing all my cross platform games. Since the outage, so far that's been Clash of Heroes and Gatling Gears. Both of which, I would of purchased on PSN before the breach. Since they've done nothing to entice me to come back to their service, I'll continue to purchase all my future cross platform downloadable games on XBL.

So only people who spent money on PSN should have been surveyed? I haven't spent money on PSN and likely never will but I still have opinions about the breach, the welcome back package and the loss of PSN for the past 4 weeks.

 

[Sinistar]

Apparently the attacks on Sony continue:

Report: Sony Music Japan, Sony Ericsson hacked

http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-20065816-245.html

 

[AlNom]

:/ So... are they planning on hacking the Sony E3 conference too? :|

 

[Xenus]

This is becoming downright childish Big bad Sony dared sue people we consider our own so lets just attack attack attack and pester every opening like a petulant child who doesn't get their way. If anything this is just going to make Sony's stance towards hackers much harsher.

 

[BadTB25]

This is becoming downright childish Big bad Sony dared sue people we consider our own so lets just attack attack attack and pester every opening like a petulant child who doesn't get their way. If anything this is just going to make Sony's stance towards hackers much harsher.

What do you expect them to do?

They are going against a major corporation who they believe is abusing the court systems to unfairly hamper a product that the user has purchased.

Sony decided to sue the hackers that allowed the system to be more open, but specifically did not easily enable piracy (geohot and graff).

I do not believe in piracy, but neither do I believe that we should not be able to enhance a product that I have purchased via homebrew.

Google, MS and others (at least recently) have offered rewards to hackers that have pointed out security holes. I have to believe that this was much more effective while at the same time has generated more of a positive vibe.

 

[Xenus]

I'm sorry but regardless of how you feel about Sony suing Goehotz. What has been done here is indefensible. It's one thing to take down Sony's servers crash them DDOS them whatever to to hassle the company. It's completely another to steal data off their databases. This is no righteous war this has become nothing more then an excuse for criminal mischief and now to kick the evil Sony while they are down.

 

[eastmen]

Why does everyone assume this is revenge ?

Why can't it simply criminals finding sonys security incompetent and are taking advantage ? perhaps the inital hack was because of geohot but mabye now hacker groups have seen how pathatic sony's security is and are reaping the rewards of finding such a vunerable company ?

i certianly don't defend the hackers what they are doing is wrong , but sony not having the proper security is wrong also and in the end the buck stops with sony as they should be securing their customers data instead of leaving it out there for these hackers to take.

 

[Xenus]

Eastmen I don't think you understand how many servers they need to secure. they have hundreds if not thousands of servers. They know their security is boned but it will take months to a year and few months to secure everything. Sony simply cannot afford to take everything down for that kind of time. They have to secure the most vital servers aka those with credit card data and then start working out from there. It's not like they can just flip a switch and bam all their severs now have upgraded security and firewalls.

 

[eastmen]

Eastmen I don't think you understand how many servers they need to secure. they have hundreds if not thousands of servers. They know their security is boned but it will take months to a year and few months to secure everything. Sony simply cannot afford to take everything down for that kind of time. They have to secure the most vital servers aka those with credit card data and then start working out from there. It's not like they can just flip a switch and bam all their severs now have upgraded security and firewalls.

No I understand perfectly.

I think you don't understand. This is still sonys fault. Did the hackers make sony put up comprimised servers and run them without ever updating them to close the holes ?

I understand the task sony has at hand and i'm sure its a daunting one , the problem is that sony let it get to this point to begin with. We will continue to see sony hacked because of this , but thats because of sonys screw up at the start.

 

[temesgen]

Why does everyone assume this is revenge ?

Why can't it simply criminals finding sonys security incompetent and are taking advantage ? perhaps the inital hack was because of geohot but mabye now hacker groups have seen how pathatic sony's security is and are reaping the rewards of finding such a vunerable company ?

i certianly don't defend the hackers what they are doing is wrong , but sony not having the proper security is wrong also and in the end the buck stops with sony as they should be securing their customers data instead of leaving it out there for these hackers to take.

The CNET article makes it pretty clear that the hackers wanted to humiliate Sony, I think most people have concluded this is a coordinated attempt to get even with Sony for Geohot.

 

[Xenus]

Yes but people are treating each attack as a separate entity therefore a separate and further failure of Sony's security. When they are all the same failure just that they physically haven't been able to patch all the holes yet. It's one humungous company wide failing not a train of separate smaller ones.