Remote game services (OnLive, Gaikai, etc.)

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...-and-onlive-not-yet-appropriate-for-all-games

InstantAction CEO Louis Castle has expressed concern that cloud gaming technologies such as OnLive and Gaikai may be too ambitious for current broadband audiences.

Speaking to GamesIndustry.biz in an interview published today, he felt that " Gaikai and OnLive are great technologies, but it's going to be a while before they're a good experience for everybody.

"It'll certainly be a long time, if ever, that they're appropriate for all games."

...

"I think that the idea that the network speeds are going up all the time and latency is going down... that's true on average, but the actual latency is getting worse and worse because there's more and more people online.

"Eventually, way down the road, everybody will have ubiquitous high speed connections and that's great. We're happy too, we just want to deliver our games to our customers."


Games like AngryBird don't need real-time, high speed network. Should be good enough for many games.
 
http://www.virtualworldsnews.com/2010/10/openfeint-propels-launch-game-to-1-in-72-hours.html

OpenFeint has released stats about its recent launch on Android, saying that it propelled one of its 8 launch titles to #1 on the Android app store within its first 72 hours. In additional, half of the 8 launch games hit the Android app store's top 15. OpenFeint plans to follow its 8 launch titles with an additional 12 games set to release this week. OpenFeint serves over 40 million users on the iPhone and Android platforms, adding 160,000 new users per day and serves over 3100 games.

...
 
Another one, more related to social network gaming:

Survey Finds Significant Overlap Between Console, Social, Mobile Gamers
http://gamasutra.com/view/news/3080...rlap_Between_Console_Social_Mobile_Gamers.php


Ummm, I certainly find these articles interesting Patsu, but I'm scratching my head as to how they are relevant to Onlive? Unless you're speculating that Onlive will be coming to mobile gaming devices (like Cellphones?). And in that case, I don't think any wireless broadband service would be able to handle the bandwidth required by Onlive. I think even 4G would get swamped if there were a significant population of Onlive gaming devices connected and in use. And that's not to even mention latency.

Regards,
SB
 
They cover more than mobile devices. There are overlaps in gamers on consoles, cellphones, PCs/Macs (social games), tablets/pads, and may be TV soon. The scene is changing rather quickly.

OnLive will have to react accordingly. I believe they drop their monthly fees partly because you can game on the above devices without subscription, and for cheap in some cases ! From a network centric perspective, the device boundary will blur over time.
 
Ummm, I certainly find these articles interesting Patsu, but I'm scratching my head as to how they are relevant to Onlive? Unless you're speculating that Onlive will be coming to mobile gaming devices (like Cellphones?). And in that case, I don't think any wireless broadband service would be able to handle the bandwidth required by Onlive. I think even 4G would get swamped if there were a significant population of Onlive gaming devices connected and in use. And that's not to even mention latency.

Regards,
SB
They have shown Crysis on an iPhone before though so you could use Onlive on your phone if it's connected to a wi-fi network at least. Of course being tethered to a wi-fi network does cramp the portability aspect to playing games on your phone but a lot of people have access to free wi-fi through their work or their schools so I can see it still being used.
 
I think these guys need to pursue content that better suits the technology and the (possibly hypothetical) demographic. What they want is somewhat graphically demanding games that are latency tolerant. Furthermore, they should forget about hardcore gamers. Just forget them. So step one is get the Sims 3. Do whatever you have to, sell Will Wright your children, just get the damn thing, and anything like it. Get games like KoTOR, Civ IV (maybe 5), Dragon Age (or Baldur's Gate even), things like that. Next they should shore up their library with indie stuff, arcade stuff / abandonware / and older gen console games.

I realize they're pushing the tech and they want to go head-to-head with console action titles, but they can't. Finding a few appropriate graphicsy AAA titles might be good for image, but leave it at that. Games like Dirt 2 just make them look bad and likely piss off customers. Much better to push a big marketplace of older, arcade-type games, as well as graphically intensive but latency tolerant AAAs. This would ease the server load substantially, giving them a larger margin to spend on R&D and devrel.

I realize that this strategy would make them look like Steam's ugly cousin to most of us, but I really don't think we're the demographic. What they need to sell is the idea that they have instant-play, large market of games, sys-req: opposable thumbs. I would even recommend separating their games into tiers by bandwidth requirement. For fuck's sake, the whole point is HW independence, but they've got you anchored to a desktop, which in all likelihood is a PC, and in all likelihood can run the game better natively.
 
(is this about any cloud gaming topic)

Adrenaline.Gamestring
WoW play on GoogleTV
Adrenalin is optimized to let you remotely play the 3D games installed on your home PC through a web browser. If you want, Adrenalin can allow remote users to play by giving them control of your 3D game. Optimized for OpenGL and DirectX Games. Install Adrenaline PC client.

I am not sure is this fully transparent to any PC game, be it 2D/3D game. Do they dll-inject directx and opengl libraries and grap rendering commands, or may dll-inject Vista/Win7 DWM desktop drivers. Capture is then encoded to a video.

This service promises you to play any game buy and install on your PC, or let friends play it. OnLive and Gaikai hosts games chosen by them.
 
Yeah I saw that. Finally tried Sony's GoogleTV in stores. It's quite slow. Also, the bundled controller is clunky and unresponsive.

Sony should do a native version of GoogleTV services on PS3. The experience will be better if they can clean up the UI, and use Move.
 
Gaikai's Perry On Gaming's Jump To The Cloud:
http://gamasutra.com/view/news/31466/InDepth_Gaikais_Perry_On_Gamings_Jump_To_The_Cloud.php

Perry likens the transition from disc gaming to cloud gaming to when home consoles became as powerful as arcade machines, which used to be the the pinnacle of video game technology. As consoles brought arcade-grade power to gamers, cloud gaming can bring high-end gaming PC power to average web users.

Notably, Gaikai's business model isn't the same as competing cloud service OnLive -- where OnLive has been selling "PlayPasses" for remotely-hosted games, Gaikai will initially make its revenue by partnering with publishers, which will use the streaming tech to allow users to click on a web ad and almost instantly access a game.




Where does cloud gaming fit between digital downloads and currently popular web-based gaming like social games?

David Perry: As games get better on Facebook, you’ll be drawn to them; you’ll find it hard to go back to the old text-based stuff. The history of the industry has also, I think, taken that to an extreme in the past, where you had arcade machines -- I just accepted that I wasn’t going to be buying arcade machines for home, so it was okay to go put your quarters in it.

 
Gaikai Cloud-Based Games Service Enters Open Beta With 11,000 Public Users:
http://gamasutra.com/view/news/3158..._Enters_Open_Beta_With_11000_Public_Users.php

Gaikai founder Dave Perry has announced that the cloud-based gaming service has entered open beta, with 11,000 invitations going out to selected members of the public over the past 48 hours.

"On Sunday afternoon we decided to stop coming up with excuses not to launch Gaikai to the public and silently sent out a blast of 1,000 invites around the world," Perry wrote on his blog.

...
 
Hmm, Joystiq reviews the Onlive Microconsole (the little box that puts Onlive in your TV" and it seems kind of exciting! Dec 2 launch date, preorders now. You also get
a voucher redeemable for one free game from the service's library.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/11/18/onlive-microconsole-review/

img9636.jpg


onlive.microconsole.announcement.111810-530px.png


Once in a game, I was wowed by the quality of the picture and the framerate. Assassin's Creed 2, Dirt 2 and many others looked noticeably better than their console counterparts, with higher framerates as well. My experience with the video looking compressed was mixed. Unreal Tournament 3 got downright muddy at times, while the aforementioned games and others such as Batman: Arkham Asylum, a very dark game, were razor sharp from my viewing distance, with compression artifacts only visible if I stood an abnormal distance from the screen (2-3 feet)

On the topic of control lag and latency issues in general: I didn't notice them. I'm sure there's lag, but in the (many) games I played it just didn't have any noticeable effect. Any dropped frames or stuttering -- which were infrequent -- were the result of the games themselves. The video streaming itself was entirely devoid of hitches or jumps in speed or quality.

My first impression of the MicroConsole: its packaging is really nice. The console, controller and necessary cables come neatly packaged in a hefty black matte slip-top box with varnished/raised accents -- not the sort of look you'd expect from a $99 product. Opening it up, the concept of a "micro" console is driven home immediately. All you'll see is the small, DSi-sized console and its controller. Underneath them lies a power supply -- the unit only requires a measly 6 watts -- an ethernet cable, a standard to micro USB cable for controller syncing/charging and something that more expensive, HD consoles leave out: a nice, long HDMI cable.

99 bucks? And apparently better looking games than console? I mean, with the right funding, couldn't this be some kind of console killer in time?

Isn't average joe going to find this very compelling? He walks into a store and sees this for 99, or Xbox or Playstation for 199 or 299. And knows the games are 10 cheaper also. I dont think average joe cares about the fact his game may live in the cloud, and he cant store his disc away.

And it's so tiny. They show a comparison pic to iPhone and it's barely bigger than an iPhone.

Man I am kind of excited about this. For 99 bucks I will get one just to play around with if nothing else. Shoot I spent 150 on Kinect for the same reason lol. They also mention the games top out at 50, 10 cheaper than console. Though of course, you dont get a disc, and the game is not as "permanent".

I mean on the surface, this really seems like it has the potential to be groundbreaking. I bet they can get that box down to $49 easily too soon enough. And I wonder if casuals even care about lag.

This Onlive company really seems to be on the ball.

Activision too, could be all over this, or a similar concept. COD drives something like 80% of gametime on Live, but only MS sees the dollars. So I often think Acti should make a "COD box", with COD exclusive, but didn't know how they could do it under traditional console terms. Well, here's how...

One downside I noticed: The reviewer states he has 68 Mb/s internet. Would have liked to see testing with a reasonable 10 Mb connection.
 
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Very true, that kind of ruins the whole review right there. Still, if they can deliver the majority of the reviewers experience under normal speeds, it looks to be a winner.

Also just to note, I found out recently I can actually get 107 Mb/s internet where I live, and that is a small town in Texas. Granted it's $120 a month.

Just on a macro business picture though, this has all kinds of possibly devastating consequences for the traditional console model, if the latency is acceptable. The entire hardware brand war between Sony, Nintendo and MS could actually die out. Whether Onlive, or a better funded corporation delivers it.

I think they could fight it on a few fronts, experiences like Kinetic could be key (then again, I'd argue this gen has proven traditional hardcore gamers still reign in the market, given the Wii's fade). Console exclusives obviously. And in MS's case, they could probably get the Arcade 360 down to 99 in a pinch, making the price trade off disappear. Still, I think this is a tantalizing flash of the possible power of this model. Another question mark would be, if Onlive could stand the onslaught of much more powerful next gen consoles (it's entirely possible they could actually, given the pc ports Onlive play will eventually catch back up graphically). But luckily they appear to have at least a couple years of competing against old gen.

Mind you not that I'm saying any of this is going to happen next month or anything. But I wonder how disruptive this type of thing could be if say, MS bought it and threw a few hundred million behind it. Then again, I imagine MS are already in way too far in buying the next silicon for their next hot, heavy, expensive, traditional box. So they can subsidize it into peoples homes at $400 and still lose a few billion in the process.
 
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IGN review too: http://gear.ign.com/articles/113/1135364p1.html

But what about the OnLive service itself? Well, it's hard to say definitively, as performance depends largely on connection speed, area, and your home setup, but our experiences on an average 4 to 6Mbps home connection were pretty solid. Games ran smoothly without framerate drops, interruption, or sizable amounts of compression, and navigating menus and firing up games was a cinch. The number of available games is admittedly limited, roughly 40 available titles, and still growing, but more titles on the way, and more same-day releases are on the way, including the upcoming Deus Ex.

As positive as our experiences have been, there are still some core issues for users to be apprehensive about, like, of course, the fact that there is no physical sense of ownership for a $49.99 purchase. There are also other looming concerns, like service provider data caps, which could be reached and exceeded faster with services like OnLive. There is something inherently cool with being able to fire up any game in a digital library instantaneously anytime, anywhere regardless of how advanced your PC is, but the limitations of nationwide broadband, home networking, and the lacking sense of ownership may dissuade certain users.


9.0 Performance
Games run smoothly and the controller has no input lag.
7.5 Build Quality
Solid, though the triggers are stiff and the buttons are a bit small.
6.5 Features
Though OnLive's reasoning for omitting integrated Wi-Fi was sound, it is pretty limiting for the user.
8.0 Ease of Use
Setup is simple, though Wi-Fi networking can be tricky.
9.0 Value
For $99 plus a free game, the MicroConsole is a great value.


Overall 8.0.

But they ran it with 4-6 Mb/s internet, definitely below internet average speed, and seemed ok.

I have a feeling lack of integrated wi-fi could be a problem for many users. Not for me though, in my setup my cable modem and router/hub is right next to the TV, so I can directly wire devices without issue. I understand many homes are not set up like that however.
 
But they ran it with 4-6 Mb/s internet, definitely below internet average speed.
That doesn't sound below average to me. Below mean averages, possibly. Speedtest.net has a table of coutnry BB speeds that placse the Uk at over 9 Mb/s average. However, that's made up of some 2 Mb and some 50 Mb connections. I expect the mode may be about 4-6 MB/s.

Still, at least the IGN review is reasonable comparable to what users would be looking at. Do they mention what their BW usage was, so we know what sort of ISP plan is needed considering all the capped services out there?
 
That doesn't sound below average to me. Below mean averages, possibly. Speedtest.net has a table of coutnry BB speeds that placse the Uk at over 9 Mb/s average. However, that's made up of some 2 Mb and some 50 Mb connections. I expect the mode may be about 4-6 MB/s.

Still, at least the IGN review is reasonable comparable to what users would be looking at. Do they mention what their BW usage was, so we know what sort of ISP plan is needed considering all the capped services out there?

Well, by definition it is below average (which is most commonly defined as arithmetic mean) according to speedtests stats.

Looking at the country tables on speedtest, USA average is a hair over 10Mb/s.

Also just from my general knowledge, it would seem to be difficult to get cable internet at less than 10 mb/s in the US (unless you specifically buy the cheapo old person plan). You can get DSL below that. But people interested in computer games wont have that.

Anyways it rising all the time, dont think it will be an issue to kill the service. I am sure not everyone will be able to use it, just as even today not everyone in the USA has access to broadband internet. But if 80% can use it, or some other large majority, that's fine.
 
Well, by definition it is below average (which is most commonly defined as arithmetic mean)
Yes, but it shouldn't be. Arithmetic mean is a poor choice of average in many cases it's used. You want to know what percentage of the population will have a fast enough connection.

But if 80% can use it, or some other large majority, that's fine.
That's the question. What percentage of people can actually use it? In the UK I'd say less than 50%, and I'd say that's not likely to change much over the next 5 years because rollout of fibre is dog-slow. eg.

By contrast the UK governments Universal Service Commitment (USC) seeks to make a minimum broadband download speed of 2Mbps available to everybody in country by 2015.

However the private sector alone should, under present rollout plans, be able to bring 'up to' 40-200Mbps fibre optic and cable broadband services within reach of 66%-70% by 2015 via BT and Virgin Media developments.
So by 2015 maybe 2/3rds of the UK will have 20+ Mbit connections. It's worth mentioning (and I've done so before) I live in a Surrey village some 7ish miles from Guildford, games development capital of the UK and thus Europe, just off the commuter route to London. The adjacent village has had cable for a decade, but we haven't, and there are no plans to provide here. In one of the most densely populated counties in Europe we can't get anything but phoneline connections - we're not talking some backwater or sticks here!
 
Yes, but it shouldn't be. Arithmetic mean is a poor choice of average in many cases it's used. You want to know what percentage of the population will have a fast enough connection
Ive gotta disagree there, mean is a far better representitive choice than the average is.
(also u had this reversed "That doesn't sound below average to me. Below mean averages, possibly")
WRT internet speed/wages earned etc.
mean is usually lower than average.
cause the slowest/least u can have is 0.0 but the highest is 100-1000s
eg guessing here but
the majority of ppl have speeds 5-10mb
but u have some ppl on 60+mp
the average may work out to be 15-20mb
but the mean will be in the range 5-10mb
 
Well I've been told many times (ok, actually read countless comments on Engadget and such) on the internet by Europeans that us poor Americans internet sucks compared to their's. I dont get why when I'm on the other side of the argument now I get word that Europeans internet is now terrible :D

It reminds me a bit of when Xbox Live started in 2001, and required a broadband connection, back when dial up was still common. I thought it would be an issue, I was wrong. Over time broadband just expanded and became the norm. I'm sure there's still people who cant get it, but they're a small minority.

As I said, 10 Mb seems to be just a very average cable connection nowdays, many seem quite a bit faster, from reading DSL reports. DSL around here seems to be a bit lower (6 mbps). There are of course cheaper plans with lower speeds, but those are a choice. The sweet spot also favors this. 10 MB may be $40, while 768k may be $25 for example, I believe are my ISP's basic options (besides the superfast 107 I mentioned). 6 MB DSL is $35.

Anyways, I just really dont think it will be an issue.

Preorders here, I'm thinking about it.... https://www.onlive.com/store/order

It really makes no sense for me, as I already have a 360 and a fairly beefy PC, but still, would be a fun toy. Renting games sounds quite awesome as well.

It really makes a lot of sense if unlike me, you DONT have an expensive gaming PC. And if the game selection improves.
 
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