Rein: Consoles put a stranglehold on DX10
- Thread starter Rangers
- Start date
It all sounds pretty bad for PC gaming until you get the final paragraph were he says PC games will still get some games that push the limits while other games will just have higher settings/res/framerates than equivilent console games and your left thinking... well, er what have you just told us that we haven't already known for the past 10 years?
PC games always just look like enhanced versions of current gen console games with maybe the odd one or two going beyond that to look almost next gen level. usually less than a year or so before the next gen consoles arrive.
I thought that SPU vertex preprocessing and xbox 360 extentions would allow quite a bit of overlap between the current consoles & DX10 techniques (== geometry shaders.)
Plus DX10 helps reduce state-changing overhead, which is generally already strongest on consoles
(so he's mainly on about the fact consoles place a limit on ram use I suppose.)
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
I actually haven't seen a playable game on PC that looks better than Gears of War on an X360. Even on a great rig. PC developers just can't afford the art assets IMO.
I thought that SPU vertex preprocessing and xbox 360 extentions would allow quite a bit of overlap between the current consoles & DX10 techniques (== geometry shaders.)
Plus DX10 helps reduce state-changing overhead, which is generally already strongest on consoles
You're correct.
And he's wrong.
It's this simple.
He just wants to develop on a fast growing platform he used to, because he doesn't know how to optimize for performance. Sad but true.
Oh bravo!. Thanks for your contribution, please collect your goodie bag on the way out, and by the way, here's your sign!
Then you barely have seen any PC game at all my friend (how about GoW for PC though?)!
Lol, even the haters need some love!
Mark Rein is not exactly someone I consider trustworthy to be honest. He is a dick 90% of the time and spouts off about random crap and has on a number of occasions damned other developers games. He also often side steps remarks when something bad is stated about one of his games, in the recent Games for Windows magazine it made me almost puke the way he basically downplayed other games in order to make up for some short coming in GOW. That's pretty damn pathetic.
True, one just dont compare a control remote car with a BMW (or whatever low/middle class car)!
Oboro Shogun
Newcomer
I'm disappointed in many ways with EPIC as a whole after the way the ignored the GOW online community. They pretty much seems like they are too busy counting all of our money to listen to the people who bought and support their game. I could understand if it was EA but a company that talks their relations with the community up so much and then ignores huge, glaring problems with the online portion of their game is even worse. Talking about having not enough man power to fix this or that and then pump out a couple of pay to play updates rather than fix the horrible net code. Come on guys you've sold like 4 million copies of this game, you can afford to address the very loyal (and now quickly shrinking) competitive online community. Sorry for the rant.....all I wanted was good matchmaking and ranked games with my friends.....
I thought that SPU vertex preprocessing and xbox 360 extentions would allow quite a bit of overlap between the current consoles & DX10 techniques (== geometry shaders.)
Plus DX10 helps reduce state-changing overhead, which is generally already strongest on consoles
(so he's mainly on about the fact consoles place a limit on ram use I suppose.)
No, he's talking about DX10's greater featureset and vastly greater power to come (by G9x/R7xx even midrange DX10 GPU's will be well beyond the power of either console).
I'm disappointed in many ways with EPIC as a whole after the way the ignored the GOW online community. They pretty much seems like they are too busy counting all of our money to listen to the people who bought and support their game. I could understand if it was EA but a company that talks their relations with the community up so much and then ignores huge, glaring problems with the online portion of their game is even worse. Talking about having not enough man power to fix this or that and then pump out a couple of pay to play updates rather than fix the horrible net code. Come on guys you've sold like 4 million copies of this game, you can afford to address the very loyal (and now quickly shrinking) competitive online community. Sorry for the rant.....all I wanted was good matchmaking and ranked games with my friends.....
What problems do you speak of? And Gears is still the #1 game on XBL, and probably therefore the #1 online game in the world, and has been since release.
No ranked matchmaking was a philosophical choice, as such, it cant really be considered a flaw, even though many do. Anyway, you can just play player match with your friends? Why do people always ignore that option as if it doesn't exist?
SedentaryJourney
Regular
Ebola was saying that the DX10 feature set can be implemented on consoles. As for your second point, that's hard to tell since no one knows what a mid range G9x/R7xx looks like.
zealotonous
Newcomer
I know there are some issues where the host has an advantage in Gears of War, but what other net issues are there?
Its never took longer than a 2 years for PC gaming on highend cards to look a generation beyond what capable on consoles.
While you might be able to create the visual effects of newer DX10 games with the 360 and the PS3. Time will erode the ability of the PS3 and 360 to mimic the visual quality of PC games on newly released high end cards.
Perhaps he was saying that. But he's wrong, since it cannot. You may be able to emulate some aspects of the DX10 featureset on the consoles CPU's (and Xenos does go part way on its own), but much of the time its going to make no sense whatsoever or its going to be a lot slower.
I mean, how to you emulate the integer instruction set in DX10 pixel shaders on the SPU's? Ignore RSX's pixel shaders? And how would Xenon handle that?
Regarding my second point, it wouldn't take much to push the G8x/R6xx midrange parts beyond the console GPU's as it is and the next gen, being a reresh should be quite a bit more powerful. However that doesn't take away my basic point, there are DX10 GPU's that are already FAR more powerful than either console GPU and thats only going to become more true over the next 3-6 GPU refreshes that will occur during this console generation. It seems pretty clear to me that Rein was talking about that power going largely untapped aswell as the more advanced featureset. He certainly wasn't saying "consoles can do everything DX10 PC's can do if it wasn't for the smaller memory".
silhouette
Regular
I do not think it will be the case this time. The biggest jump in rendering quality occurs when the entire shader pipeline went to floating-point with SM2.0 IMO which none of the previous-gen console hardware had. This gen, therefore it is different. Yes, PC games will look better, but I doubt it will look a generation better even four years after the debut of 360.
I doubt moving to SM 2.0 will make it difficult for ever improving technology from ATI and Nvidia to move beyond the visual quality capable on the PS3 and 360. I can't see how PC tech in 2011 won't be able to look a generation ahead of a six year old console (360).
I dont know what the score is with GoW but in the past i'd say epic have been good to their fans
the games arrive in a decent solid condition(no rush jobs) plenty of updates, free content (the original UT had 4 bonus packs), sdk + source code releases, help for modders ect.
as for rein himself he is a greedy sob and isnt adverse to lying to people and stretching the truth
the games arrive in a decent solid condition(no rush jobs) plenty of updates, free content (the original UT had 4 bonus packs), sdk + source code releases, help for modders ect.
as for rein himself he is a greedy sob and isnt adverse to lying to people and stretching the truth