Read please, an interesting mail that about N5 and Hitachi

[PC-Engine]

If N5 or the digital hub is based on a totally custom cpu, it will probably be very powerful, however I highly doubt it would even be in the hundreds of GFLOPS range let alone TFLOPS. I'd say more than 50 but less than 150 GFLOPS. The GPU would be the real GFLOPS monster anyway. The reason for this is I think the conglomerate wants the cpu to be cheap to manufacture so that they can add other features without having to worry too much about additional costs. Therefore the cpu will not be huge like CELL. I'd say less than 200 million transistors.

Edit: Also because IMO the cpu in N5 will be fabbed using 0.09u...

 

[DeadmeatGA]

...

There is a 99% possibility that this rumor is false. Why? There is no money to be made in console hardware, and Hitachi and NEC will not be collecting license fee from developers.

Only few companies can afford to lose $200 each on first couple million batches of consoles sold, and that's SCEI and Microsoft, not NEC, Hitachi, and NIntendo.

 

[PC-Engine]

Re: ...

There is a 99% possibility that this rumor is false. Why? There is no money to be made in console hardware, and Hitachi and NEC will not be collecting license fee from developers.

Only few companies can afford to lose $200 each on first couple million batches of consoles sold, and that's SCEI and Microsoft, not NEC, Hitachi, and NIntendo.

Well why did Panasonic make the Q then? If this rumor is true then this digital hub will be what the Q was to the GCN. Except this time Hitachi and NEC would be making them instead of Panasonic.

 

[Paul]

So MAYBE NEC, Cray, Hitachi are working on a TeraFlops class CPU for Nintendo that will rival or surpass the IBM-Sony-Toshiba Cell for PS3.

Only.. these companies couldn't produce something like this on anything other than 0.90 micron in time for a 2005 launch, or will they have 0.65 fabs avaliable for a 2005 launch window? Not to mention cost.. I don't see nintendo taking huge losses if ANY on GC2. You can't just create a Teraflops class CPU in thin air, unless they were working on it for 3-4 years and dumped billions into it like the Cell crew. Cell having 1TFLOPS performance will be a miracle upon itself.

 

[DeadmeatGA]

...

Well why did Panasonic make the Q then?

Was Q a successful product? Or did Matsushita lost a pile of cash selling it???

Japanese electronic industry is still in recession and the executives are still watching their cost. They will not take a plunge into money-bleeding console market like they did in the 90's.

Except this time Hitachi and NEC would be making them instead of Panasonic.

You tell me how Hitachi and NEC would be competing against Sony and MS who sell their boxes $200 below manufacturing cost, and each armed with a couple dozen exclusive titles... They can't.

 

[PC-Engine]

Re: ...

Well why did Panasonic make the Q then?

Was Q a successful product? Or did Matsushita lost a pile of cash selling it???

Japanese electronic industry is still in recession and the executives are still watching their cost. They will not take a plunge into money-bleeding console market like they did in the 90's.

Except this time Hitachi and NEC would be making them instead of Panasonic.

You tell me how Hitachi and NEC would be competing against Sony and MS who sell their boxes $200 below manufacturing cost, and each armed with a couple dozen exclusive titles... They can't.

Panasonic didn't lose any money from the Q because the Q was selling at a higher price than GCN. The Q didn't sell as well as GCN because the GCN existed

If let's say N5 were to be $300 at launch and was manufactured by both Hitachi and NEC and the only way to play Nintendo's games was through these two N5/digital hubs then...

Therefore why would this be any different than PS2 at $300 or Xbox at $300? See what I'm getting at here? Not only that but this thing would look like a serious piece of equipment instead of a toy 8)

However if Nintendo were to release a stripped down version of this digital hub then Hitachi and NEC's offering would be supplemental products which this rumor is NOT suggesting. The rumor says Nintendo will not manufacture their own next generation console leaving it up to Hitachi and NEC. It also say NEC will have a 15% stake in this project.

 

[Megadrive1988]

Well I say that if NEC and Hitachi have their own versions of this machine that plays Nintendo games, then Panasonic could/would as well.

Panasonic
Hitachi
NEC

all at $299.

 

[PC-Engine]

So basically, Nintendo would be changing hardware manufacturers.

Not sure, but I think it is implying more than that. Seems like Nintendo shifting its focus more towards software while throwing its weight behind an alliance between the companies to combat Sony and MS.

Yes that what it sounds like to me too. Nintendo will let NEC and Hitachi make the complete consoles for them instead of them making their own. This will allow them to focus their resources on software and GB hardware/software. I think this is a great plan if true. It's kinda odd that there's no mention of Matsushita in all of this?

 

[Megadrive1988]

I think this is a great plan if true. It's kinda odd that there's no mention of Matsushita in all of this?

because this plan is a rumor, and rumors are almost never complete in the story they tell. whoever provided the info for that rumor, assuming it is the truth, they were probably able to look at the big picture only from a soda straw. I have little doubt that Mastsushita is invloved in this allience
or whatever allience Nintendo is actually a part of.

 

[Josiah]

well it has been confirmed that ATI is working on graphics hardware for future Nintendo machines. it COULD be that ATI is really just making an integrated graphics solution for the successor to GBA, and Nintendo plans no successor to GC.

 

[DeadmeatGA]

...

Panasonic didn't lose any money from the Q because the Q was selling at a higher price than GCN.

Matushita surely lost money on Q because of R&D and production facility cost.

If let's say N5 were to be $300 at launch and was manufactured by both Hitachi and NEC and the only way to play Nintendo's games was through these two N5/digital hubs then...

When will you realize that people don't care about Nintendo games anymore??? Hell, a game shop nearby me don't even carry GC stuffs anymore, only PSX2 and Xbox. Oddly enough, a PSX2 carries a higher trade-in value than a comparable Xbox..

Therefore why would this be any different than PS2 at $300 or Xbox at $300?

PSX3 and XBox2 : Costs $500 to build, sells for $299 each plus a massive launch marketting.

N5 : Must cost $200 to build, sells for $299(Manufacturers need to make a profit off the hardware plus pay a royalty to Nintendo). Plus Nintendo won't spend much money on marketting.

You are expecting a $200 console to compete with $500 consoles? Don't bother.

 

[jvd]

So MAYBE NEC, Cray, Hitachi are working on a TeraFlops class CPU for Nintendo that will rival or surpass the IBM-Sony-Toshiba Cell for PS3.

Only.. these companies couldn't produce something like this on anything other than 0.90 micron in time for a 2005 launch, or will they have 0.65 fabs avaliable for a 2005 launch window? Not to mention cost.. I don't see nintendo taking huge losses if ANY on GC2. You can't just create a Teraflops class CPU in thin air, unless they were working on it for 3-4 years and dumped billions into it like the Cell crew. Cell having 1TFLOPS performance will be a miracle upon itself.

Yawn of course paul. Of course only the cell crew could make a 1 tflops cpu.

 

[DeadmeatGA]

...

Of course only the cell crew could make a 1 tflops cpu.

I don't think CELL crews are having a teraflop CPU either. There was an old news leak about CELL cpu being downgradded to 200~300 GFLOPS range but caught little attention from general public.

 

[Megadrive1988]

well it has been confirmed that ATI is working on graphics hardware for future Nintendo machines. it COULD be that ATI is really just making an integrated graphics solution for the successor to GBA, and Nintendo plans no successor to GC

but that would contradict Nintendo's official statements that they are working on successors to both GBA AND GC. ATI is probably doing the graphics for the GBA successor as well as the GC successor (and XB2)

 

[Paul]

Yawn of course paul. Of course only the cell crew could make a 1 tflops cpu.

Did this have a point? No it didn't, it was a attempt at trolling, and you know it. Not very good though.

 

[jvd]

Yawn of course paul. Of course only the cell crew could make a 1 tflops cpu.

Did this have a point? No it didn't, it was a attempt at trolling, and you know it. Not very good though.

Paul show me proof that no one but sony can make a 1tflop chip. Then show me a sony 1tflop chip. Till then shut up about sony only being able to do that . And yes it was an attempt to troll a troll . Figured you would be able to spot that quickly .

 

[PC-Engine]

Matushita surely lost money on Q because of R&D and production facility cost.

LOL Matsushita spends money on R&D period. They're a consumer electronics company. The Q is just a GCN with DVD playback and a shiny shell. You think Panasonic doesn't spend money on R&D for microwaves, tvs, vcrs, dvd players, stereos????

So uh no Matsushita doesn't lose money from Q nor vcrs, nor tvs, nor microwaves, and the list goes on and on. They sell electronics to make money not to lose money....

The R&D for the GCN portion of the Q was already absorbed by Nintendo. Nintendo basically sells the guts of a GCN to Matsushita then they put in a hardware decoder and put it into a shiny box. Heck the drive from the GCN is already a Matsushita part.

When will you realize that people don't care about Nintendo games anymore??? Hell, a game shop nearby me don't even carry GC stuffs anymore, only PSX2 and Xbox. Oddly enough, a PSX2 carries a higher trade-in value than a comparable Xbox..

I guess all the top GCN games where purchased by Nintendo themselves disguised as consumers.

N5 : Must cost $200 to build, sells for $299(Manufacturers need to make a profit off the hardware plus pay a royalty to Nintendo). Plus Nintendo won't spend much money on marketting.

Um..no..instead of manufacturing it themselves, Nintendo will give that duty to NEC and Hitachi. Nintendo still absorbs the cost of R&D for the gaming technology as before. The unit will sell for $300 and cost $350-$400 to make. NEC and Hitachi gets a contract to design and manufacture parts of the gaming system just like Matsushita gets a small profit from selling the drive to Nintendo and NEC fabbing the Flipper GPU. Everybody gets something out of the deal.

 

[DeadmeatGA]

...

The Q is just a GCN with DVD playback and a shiny shell.

Does this happen magically??? Or do you have to pay engineers to make it work????

So uh no Matsushita doesn't lose money from Q nor vcrs, nor tvs, nor microwaves, and the list goes on and on.

You understand that a product has fixed cost and variable cost??? The engineers salary, R&D budget, warehousing, production facilities, and loyalty are all part of fixed cost that must be absorbed by each Q sold. And Matsushita didn't sell too many Qs from what I hear.

They sell electronics to make money not to lose money....

Exactly, this is why NEC and Hitachi will not touch N5.

 

[PC-Engine]

Re: ...

The Q is just a GCN with DVD playback and a shiny shell.

Does this happen magically??? Or do you have to pay engineers to make it work????

So uh no Matsushita doesn't lose money from Q nor vcrs, nor tvs, nor microwaves, and the list goes on and on.

You understand that a product has fixed cost and variable cost??? The engineers salary, R&D budget, warehousing, production facilities, and loyalty are all part of fixed cost that must be absorbed by each Q sold. And Matsushita didn't sell too many Qs from what I hear.

They sell electronics to make money not to lose money....

Exactly, this is why NEC and Hitachi will not touch N5.

Read my post post above, I've edited it for clarity.

Again the Q didn't sell too many because the cheaper GCN existed. If the GCN didn't exist and the Q was the only thing available then it would've sold very well. Again the the costs to design the Q is not a clean sheet design as the GCN portion was already designed by Nintendo and their partners. All Matsushita had to do was add a hardware decoder and case. It's not any different than making a stand alone dvd player which Matsushita makes them by the boat load. Matsushita also owns JVC btw so you're looking at millions of stand alone dvd players. The Q is just another stand alone dvd player with gaming technology from Nintendo built-in. Heck if Matsushita sold the Q in North America, they would've sold a lot more. You don't need a team of engineers to do this. It's not rocket science to have a hardware decoder share an optical drive with the gaming electronics.

BTW I hope you understand that there is a trade off. For example NEC had to build a fab with their own money for the manufacturing of Flipper, however NEC gets the contract from Nintendo so in the end NEC still makes a profit. IIRC they spent around $0.6 billion to build the fab. So same situation for Matsushita. The small amount of R&D needed to integrate Nintendo's GCN technology into a stand alone dvd player was insignificant compared to the contract it had with Nintendo for the drives and so far Matsushita has sold 10 million GCN drives. If Matsushita gets $2 per drive, that's $20 million and I don't think it cost that much to simply integrate GCN technology into a stand alone dvd player. Nintendo could've chosen any number of drive manufacturers.

 

[Paul]

Paul show me proof that no one but sony can make a 1tflop chip. Then show me a sony 1tflop chip. Till then shut up about sony only being able to do that . And yes it was an attempt to troll a troll . Figured you would be able to spot that quickly .

And WHERE did I say Sony IBM and Toshiba were the only ones capable in the Semiconductor world capable of making a 1TFLOPS class microprocessor? Oh wait, you pulled it out of thin air. Just like most things.

Get a grip, you have no argument but you love to create ones.