Ratchet and Clank not doing LOD on SPUs *
- Thread starter Butta
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archangelmorph
Veteran
I'm reading and it looks like some people here don't seem to understand Insomniacs reasoning for such a decision..?
What did you just completely miss that last part (or are you only selectively ignoring it?)
The guy clearly states why they aren't using the SPUs for gfx/vert processing.. As to exactly what tasks he considers to be gameplay related processing (possibly physics, AI, collisions etc?) we can only speculate but it's pretty clear to me what he mean't & I don't understand how some people can spin his words so much to attempt to infer that somehow "SPUs are useless"..
[off topic]
I think sometimes some people need to grasp the correlation between software capabilities and hardware capabilities and that in most cases when your writing monolithic-sized, performance critical software applications, alot of your real-world performance constraints actually relate to your software design/architecture way before you could ever blame the hardware for it..
[/off topic]
Don't confuse disagreement with defensiveness. You've posted a thought, and people are disagreeing and saying why. That's the nature of discussion! It's not a moatter of defending a console, but discussing the ideas and trying to open people up to ideas that they may not have considered - both ways.
My 2 cents.
As long as they do something with the awful slowdowns that the R&C PS2 versions had. Even playing the recent release "Deadlocked" the game would slow to a crawl in graphic intensive areas. It was almost unplayable., Very choppy. IMO, I really don't understand how they could release a game knowing that this happens ?. It's like watching the final grand finale of fire works in slow motion, disappointing to say the least.
As long as they do something with the awful slowdowns that the R&C PS2 versions had. Even playing the recent release "Deadlocked" the game would slow to a crawl in graphic intensive areas. It was almost unplayable., Very choppy. IMO, I really don't understand how they could release a game knowing that this happens ?. It's like watching the final grand finale of fire works in slow motion, disappointing to say the least.
JNewt427: I have played through the first 3 R&C-clank games a couple of times on PS2 PAL and have'nt experienced any slowdowns at all that i can think of. I assume that this new game to have equally solid framerate.
Regarding the pop-ins in Resistance with my experience after two playthroughs there are'nt any of them, however in multiplayer on some maps, manchester for eg, there are a few spots where the textures on windows in the distance pops-in, but rather minor i think.
Regarding the pop-ins in Resistance with my experience after two playthroughs there are'nt any of them, however in multiplayer on some maps, manchester for eg, there are a few spots where the textures on windows in the distance pops-in, but rather minor i think.
I haven't played any RnC (or JnD
) games, but AFAIK by all accounts they remain constantly smooth. Perhaps your PS2 is having trouble reading the disk, and streaming textures is slow causing the slowdown? 
I haven't played any RnC (or JnD
I've played all of the Ratchet games and none of them had slowdowns. Same goes for Jak & Daxter. Sadly, Jak 2 and Jak 3 both had tearing quite visible at times. The latter being a bit better though. Still, from Naughty Dog, I would have expected absolutely flawless and constant 60 fps.
It was obvious when I had the R&C series that the framerate fluctuated between 30 and 60fps. When there was more things drawn onscreen and/or fights then it dipped down well below 60fps and sometimes it was sub 30fps (I would estimate ~25fps).
Although 30fps is pretty much silky smooth, the transition from 60 to 30 was obvious as well as the screen tearing. :smile:
Although 30fps is pretty much silky smooth, the transition from 60 to 30 was obvious as well as the screen tearing. :smile:
If there not using the SPU's for geomrety thats great news, R&C has loads of onscreen activity and geometry so programmed correctly it meens that RSX is more then capable on its own.
betan : At this moment in time Cell may not be utilised as much as it should, but its still very early days, it took a while for developers to start utilising the vector co-processors on PS2s Emotion Engine. But the main difference is developers did'nt start using the vector units on the EE for atleast a couple of years, we have developers utilising Cell for graphics right NOW, under a year of its relase. That to me says ALOT of things about Cell, its fexable and above all it appears its easier to get to grips with the the Emotion Engine ever was. Give it time.
betan : At this moment in time Cell may not be utilised as much as it should, but its still very early days, it took a while for developers to start utilising the vector co-processors on PS2s Emotion Engine. But the main difference is developers did'nt start using the vector units on the EE for atleast a couple of years, we have developers utilising Cell for graphics right NOW, under a year of its relase. That to me says ALOT of things about Cell, its fexable and above all it appears its easier to get to grips with the the Emotion Engine ever was. Give it time.
I'm quite surprised to hear this. Could it be by any chance because of your PS2? I noticed slowdowns in some games on my launch PS2 that relied on constant streaming - the weakest link there being the laser that was obviously getting old and couldn't stream quick data enough. This sounds much like it. Not any slowdowns at all on a flawless PS2 though...
Id say the vector units were EXTREMElY vital to PS2, remember that PS2s GS had hardware support for jack shit so pretty much everything had to be done on the vector processors. With PS3 its different, RSX does have a LOT of support for various effects so you dont have to really do anything on Cell. On PS2 if you wanted a certain effect you have to do it on the vector units, so if take the vector units out of PS2 you remove the machines ability to do effects outside of whats supported.
The VU's, certainly one of them (forget which) were the Vector units of the PS2. Without them, you got no graphics at all! That's like saying the vertex units of NV2a in the XBox aren't essential!
^^ I think most people think the VUs were only usable in micromode.
Well I remember reading that one of them (V1 I think it was referred to as) was barely used to begin with, but when it was there was a big jump in the visuals of games.
I am not a programmer or "techie" though, so maybe I got my wires crossed.
It was used, in macromode, as a co-processor.. It wasn't used that often in micromode though.
I've played all of the Ratchet games and none of them had slowdowns. Same goes for Jak & Daxter. Sadly, Jak 2 and Jak 3 both had tearing quite visible at times. The latter being a bit better though. Still, from Naughty Dog, I would have expected absolutely flawless and constant 60 fps.
Full Story http://ps2.ign.com/articles/661/661501p1.html
But Yes I have the older "Fat PS2",, and like I said it is very common for me when I played. Just wanted to post a link that Others indeed have brought up this issue.
I was refering to the series, that being part 1, 2 and 3. Not the multiplayer game. Since you were refering to R&C PS2 versions, I was replying to the parts 1-3. I guess I should have worded that more carefully. My comment in regards to the series, that being part 1, 2, 3, still stands though.
EDIT:
IGN on Ratchet & Clank 1 said:
IGN on Ratchet & Clank 2 said:
IGN on Ratchet & Clank 3 said:
On the quote of R&C2 - I'm sure when played in a certain way, any game will have some hick-ups. R&C2 is one of my most played games and I never noticed anything in the framerate department that would be considered an issue.
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