tritosine5G
Newcomer
So the DOF-less stereo version can run faster than the 2d DOF counterpart ?...
Range of graphics effects in console games *spawn
- Thread starter Cyan
- Start date
Hyperbole has little to do with reality.
corduroygt
Banned
Here's the original statement:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/08/uncharted-2-makes-ps3-shine-couldnt-happen-on-360.ars
L. Scofield
Veteran
Well, maybe he meant Xbox 1
Bold claims and I'll bet they never touched the 360 devkit to actually find out if possible since they are exclusive PS/SONY developers. But it could be their code, made to run on Cell wouldn't run on 360 (obviously!). That way they can make these kind of claims without lying. Obviously effect with code written for Xenos would be anotehr story. C2 shows bokeh DOF and dynamic DOF for 360 version. A feat considering no other console game does Bokeh DOF and that is an expensive effect beyond regular quality DOF.
The U2 polygon number is peak, not average. And about compromises that is true. Think about for example in U2 with most parts having 30-40m shadow draw distance and only limited assets cast shadows vs sunlight.
I'm not so sure about that one.
Unsubstantiated and poor attempt. Folks, this isn't a pissing match.
Oh wow, that example of impostor textures really has its angles covered. I wonder what that looks like in motion though, as the Banshees and other vehicles off in the distance look very smoothly animated. I suppose they could just have their angles really covered, like you said.
SteelOak, how were you able to get your camera that close to them? I'd like to zoom right in there and check them out myself... For fun.
SteelOak, how were you able to get your camera that close to them? I'd like to zoom right in there and check them out myself... For fun.
(((interference)))
Veteran
Do we have a link to Bungie's GDC presentation on imposters?
Are they used in multiplayer? They also seem to have regular LOD models as if you play 4 player splitscreen on Forgeworld you will see enemy characters turn into very low simply textured blob figures, very similar to the ghosts in that pic poster earlier.
But in 1player SP/MP it really is seamless in game, compared to all the other large environment games i've played where there usually are LOD shifts which are noticeable to varying degrees depending on the game. Wouldn't a game like GTA4 greatly benefit from imposters, instead of using very low poly geometry for city buildings, traffic, landscapes etc.
With these polygon metrics, Bungie is on record saying that Reach can push 4m more polygons than Halo 3 could:
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/02/11/x10-halo-reach-demoed-will-be-the-definitive-halo/
Is that accurate? Does that figure come with caveats or are they just BS,which would be strange as it was mentioned in a Vidoc (which you'd hope would be vetted).
It'd be interesting to know what console game pushes the most triangles? Does the PS3 have an advantage with using the SPUs for processing geometry?
I don't think that starts until the 28th.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-halo-reach-tech-interview?page=2
Here's the only concrete info I can find about their LOD tech.
The single biggest factor was our new system to automatically generate a low-LOD version of every object and piece of level geometry in the game. This will actually be presented by Xi Wang at GDC. To give you a short summary, it builds a very efficient vertex-shaded version of each object and piece of level geometry. These LOD models render extremely fast, can be batched, and look nearly the same at distance. And because it was an automatic process we didn't have to take time from the artists. We also improved our visibility culling algorithms and made use of amortised GPU occlusion queries to reduce the amount of stuff we had to consider each frame.
(((interference)))
Veteran
Oh yeah, of course
I was reading this article on Halo 3's tech:
http://www.cgw.com/Publications/CGW/2007/Volume-30-Issue-12-Dec-2007-/Making-Halo-3-Shine.aspx
Shocking to think that the model for the Chief was only 6000 polygons, which is only twice as much as in Halo 2 (which itself had lower poly characters than H1).
Wonder how many polygons there are in the Noble 6 model in Reach
One problem is that GTA4 has 24 hour lighting, so anytime the lighting changed all the imposters would have to be recreated. Games like Reach with single time of day lighting are significantly easier to support with imposters.
(((interference)))
Veteran
True, could they just start replacing imposters further out from the player's viewpoint at first and then just blend/fade in changes to more noticeable imposters?
How would the memory cost of an imposter of a low LOD building compare to using low LOD model? Is the advantage to using imposters mainly less rendering cost or do they also use less memory.
And i'm not sure, but I'm assuming that by imposters we're talking about the 2D sprites/billboards which have instances for different viewing angles etc. and are not the low poly models, like those ghosts - which are more your traditional LOD models.
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If you create your impostors during gameplay this wouldn't really be a problem, you already have to recreate imposters due to viewdirection changes or the size on viewport
Normalmapped imposters should work quite nicely with deferred renderers as well.
I agree with you that Halo Reach is one of the most balanced looking games out there. It has open landscapes without being a sandbox, it features quite a few units on screen at the same time and a sense of liveliness in almost every stage.
I've noticed that when a lot of games get a short set of features that work so well for what those console games want, that's for some reason considered more of an *edgy* style, but once they reach certain limits, it's almost like they have to get some features cut. That would look unbalanced.
Those at least to me, are backhanded compliments to some games. "OMG, this game looks so awesome perfect--why don't they use this technique in every game???" Geez, thanks for telling me that you think your favourite game looks ugly. If in achieving some graphics feats you have to sacrifice some details, then your favourite game looks unbalanced. Few people realize that some effects may look utterly lame if applied in the wrong game or setting and what they lack are more inspirational worlds that escape developers when they create the game...
You can't be heaping praise on some games graphics appearance and practically beg developers to deliver the same kind of graphics for every game, or hoping other developers used that engine on a regular basis from then on, and put more effort into their graphic features when it wouldn't probably fit the setting and atmosphere of the game, or the console can't run them probably. Despite the fact that some people think they look great....
Except that a few of those games don't convince everybody of their greatness, because they still catch flack for actually looking odd and unbalanced whenever some odd graphics glitches, limitations or framerate problems appear. At the same time all those games are supposed to look great despite some developers seem to have a liking for engaging in silly beauty "graphic rituals" that are unnecessary.
That's to say.... Games like Halo Reach don't really like to stand out if they can help it, especially when it comes to graphics appearance. Yet they manage to look great, I think!
A very good example of this is how a lot of people want to see L.A. Noire's facial animation in every other title, without realizing the very serious compromises and limits it would impose.
Naughty Dog for example got a demo from the developers, but they already have trouble with talent casting to have someone with both a good voice and physical acting skills - if they'd also have to look for the right kind of face in addition to this, they'd have a really hard time with their games. And then there are the technical limitations - from what I've read it seems that the engine is constantly streaming the animated color and normal maps for all characters in the scene, which disables any other texture streaming and consumes a lot of memory and processing resources. You can't really combine this with the gameplay and environments of Uncharted without seriously reducing both the scope and quality of the levels. Besides, the game already has some of the best facial animation and characters anyway, so there probably wouldn't even be such a big improvement there.
Naughty Dog for example got a demo from the developers, but they already have trouble with talent casting to have someone with both a good voice and physical acting skills - if they'd also have to look for the right kind of face in addition to this, they'd have a really hard time with their games. And then there are the technical limitations - from what I've read it seems that the engine is constantly streaming the animated color and normal maps for all characters in the scene, which disables any other texture streaming and consumes a lot of memory and processing resources. You can't really combine this with the gameplay and environments of Uncharted without seriously reducing both the scope and quality of the levels. Besides, the game already has some of the best facial animation and characters anyway, so there probably wouldn't even be such a big improvement there.
