radeon 9000 and truform
- Thread starter muppy
- Start date
Because implementing TruForm would cost transistors.
And transistors cost die space.
And die space costs money.
The Radeon 9000 is a mainstream part.
And mainstream parts are sold cheap.
So you got to be able to manufacture them cheap too.
So, the Radeon 9000 doesn't support TruForm in order to be able to sell it cheaper.
Did that answer your question?
Uttar
And transistors cost die space.
And die space costs money.
The Radeon 9000 is a mainstream part.
And mainstream parts are sold cheap.
So you got to be able to manufacture them cheap too.
So, the Radeon 9000 doesn't support TruForm in order to be able to sell it cheaper.
Did that answer your question?
Uttar
nAo said:
The R300 doesn't support truform in hardware ( it is emulated in software ) because no serious developer is asking for truform support anymore.
Sorry, forgot to mention that for the Radeon 9000, it's a reason too. For the Radeon 9000, both cost cutting and the fact it's useless are a reason.
For the Radeon 9700, it's just that it's useless.
Uttar
Ostsol said:The "2.0" is due to the inclusion of displacement mapping.nAo said:Well..it's nice they called a software implementation as Truform 2.0
R300 only supports pre-sampled displacement mapping which IIRC isn't compatible with N-patches.
You don't suggest they called it 2.0 because it cannot work together with DM, do you?
Actually if you guys play Neverwinter Nights and RTCW with Truform and Cat 3.2's you would notice NO performance hit with NWN BUT you get the extra IQ. Nice rounded legs and ass and... and you won't see limbs going through each other.
RTCW has a very small hit but still close to 2%-10% at MOST.
RTCW has a very small hit but still close to 2%-10% at MOST.
I am not certain that your reasoning is correct. I am in the midst of disassembling the 3.2 Cats to see if the "non support" is a case of HW or drivers, the latter of which should be completely understandable if it is the case (disabled in drivers for performance reasons).Uttar said:
There's a check box for it in the control panel that defaults to off...
It isn't supported in hardware for newer cards, but, similar to the way it was exposed first for the 7x00 Radeons, in software.
Also, Truform was not useless on the 8500. If at all possible (i.e., if hardware functionality interferes with some other offered feature but could be supported if that feature isn't used), I'd hope for the feature to be supported again in atleast the way it was for the 8500.
My guess is an issue with the hardware (as Wavey guesses as well, I believe), or an issue with VS 2.0 on the R300. The driver people say they are seeking ways to reduce the drastic impact on performance for the R300, so maybe there is some hope that it would be useful again for the R300, atleast sometimes.
It isn't supported in hardware for newer cards, but, similar to the way it was exposed first for the 7x00 Radeons, in software.
Also, Truform was not useless on the 8500. If at all possible (i.e., if hardware functionality interferes with some other offered feature but could be supported if that feature isn't used), I'd hope for the feature to be supported again in atleast the way it was for the 8500.
My guess is an issue with the hardware (as Wavey guesses as well, I believe), or an issue with VS 2.0 on the R300. The driver people say they are seeking ways to reduce the drastic impact on performance for the R300, so maybe there is some hope that it would be useful again for the R300, atleast sometimes.
Ok, then why do I read this :
Meet the Maker - Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Raven Shieldâ„¢
http://www.ati.com/playati/gamemaker/ravenshield/index.html
Meet the Maker - Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Raven Shieldâ„¢
http://www.ati.com/playati/gamemaker/ravenshield/index.html
There are some screenshots of truform in Morrowind on a R300 here:
http://morrowind.nm.ru/Morrowind FPS Optimizer/pics.html#npatch
http://morrowind.nm.ru/Morrowind FPS Optimizer/pics.html#npatch
Dr. Ffreeze
Regular
Hello All,
Quick question:
Ante P said:
Is this true? If so, is there a reason why hardware support for truform was dropped? (lack of software support?)
Just found this thread. Do we have any more info on Truform 2.0 or games that support it? (I have a 9500 Pro).
GREAT shots! Makes me want to play Morrowind now. =)
Thankx,
Dr. Ffreeze
Quick question:
Ante P said:
Is this true? If so, is there a reason why hardware support for truform was dropped? (lack of software support?)
Just found this thread. Do we have any more info on Truform 2.0 or games that support it? (I have a 9500 Pro).
GREAT shots! Makes me want to play Morrowind now. =)
Thankx,
Dr. Ffreeze
I don't know what is wrong with ATI on this. Everything that I've seen that has TRUFORM is greatly improved. One feature that was rapidly used by developers as well. Then ATI just went quiet over it. What is ATI angle on this? Even the higher polygon games don't even compare to the improve lighting and object smoothing that TRUFORM does. I played with TRUFORM on in RTCW and can't go back without it. It will be a well missed IQ feature ATI decided to drop is all I can say.
If you can get Morrowind to run on a R300 with Truform it's because you are running like Cat 3.1 (not so sure about if its 3.1 or 3.2, but the newer drivers do not work with it)
And, when I did get it working it had a MUCH larger impact on performance on my R300 than my R200. Though, the R300 also runs the game generally faster overall which may have just made the performace hit seem more obvious.
It's surprising to me that the R300's hardcore vertex shaders can't handle the extra polygon load. Why is this? What is so special about 'hardware support' of Truform?
And, when I did get it working it had a MUCH larger impact on performance on my R300 than my R200. Though, the R300 also runs the game generally faster overall which may have just made the performace hit seem more obvious.
It's surprising to me that the R300's hardcore vertex shaders can't handle the extra polygon load. Why is this? What is so special about 'hardware support' of Truform?
The obvious reason to me why they droped hardware trueform in R3X0 is transister count. As I recall the reason R9000 dropped it was because ATI wanted the chip as small and cheep as possible, and as I remmember when the chip was first annonced had trueform (which when found missing, ATI said it they were intending for it to be available via software in later driver releases).
Now if R3X0 has upwards of 106M transisters on .15 process, and all of these are required for DX9 compliance and the performance the chip offers, it seems only logical that they could not afford the extra transisters to implement hardware trueform.
Now if R3X0 has upwards of 106M transisters on .15 process, and all of these are required for DX9 compliance and the performance the chip offers, it seems only logical that they could not afford the extra transisters to implement hardware trueform.
Doomtrooper
Veteran
Developers killed Truform, and that is a fact 
Caramack wouldn't use it for Doom 3 as it would affect his shadows, and Displacement Mapping was 'supposed' to be the next gen truform.
Caramack wouldn't use it for Doom 3 as it would affect his shadows, and Displacement Mapping was 'supposed' to be the next gen truform.
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