Do you honestly believe that a more powerful GPU would have moved more hardware? I think N did the right thing. If they pay $10 for the GPU instead of $30 (whatever the real numbers are) that's a lot of extra profit they make.
Radeon 8500 "R200" compared to Wii's Hollywood
- Thread starter swaaye
- Start date
Do you honestly believe that a more powerful GPU would have moved more hardware? I think N did the right thing. If they pay $10 for the GPU instead of $30 (whatever the real numbers are) that's a lot of extra profit they make.
brain_stew
Regular
Well they could have still got a much more powerful GPU, something like a X1300XT would have been a monster at 480p compared to Hollywood, and would hardly have raised the cost of manufacture by any meaningful amount. Hollywood was chosen for BC both with GCN software and inhouse tools and thus ease the generation transition.
Sorry I meant the r520 adn r580. As we see in games like cod mw 2 it performs much better than the 7800 series and 7900 series.
The r300 is a 107m tranistors. Its tiny , its a full dx 9 gpu so it would have put them at least in the same league as the 360 and ps3. Staying at 640x480 would let them stay more competitive and a r420 at 160m tranistors would have boosted performance again.
I have no idea how big hollywood is . But you also have to understand that the other end of the spectrum could hurt them also. If hollywood is to small on 65nm and 40nm they may not be able to shrink it due to being pad limited.
In the end the system did great but the r300 or any of the other chips would have given them a much bigger graphics boost
Last edited by a moderator:
Probably about the same size as Flipper, ~26m logic transistors, ~25m eDRAM transistors. People forget how tiny fixed-function GPUs are in comparison to modern chips.
Nothing is free. MS learned the hard way that you can't just slap off-the-shelf PC parts in a box, mass produce it, sell it for under $250, and make money. We do know there are lots of chips more powerful than Hollywood that Nintendo could have put into something as small as the Wii. What we don't know is how well that would have fit into Nintendo's strategy, or what the cost/benefit tradeoffs were. It's not like they never looked at the possibility of a different chip. These are professional engineers.
green.pixel
Veteran
If they opted for R580, it would put a requirement of form factor being PS3/360-ish, as well cooling. I highly doubt they would go down that road. And of course, the price would've been too steep for what they wanted.
Undoubtedly. I also believe Nintendo's professional engineers are being ridden very hard by top management to produce something of very low cost that can be sold at a high premium. Hence they wouldn't have schlepped a more than half-decade old hardware design in their latest console when the Wii was being put together.
Blazkowicz
Legend
they don't need to shrink it, I'm not sure that would save more money than what it costs and there are not the same heat reduction benefits as on considerably bigger chips.
I think that it's plainly clear that the blame falls on N's desire to jump on the "value added" backwards compatibility bandwagon. You take that requirement away and the sky's the limit on what they could've done, even for cheap hardware. It was one hell of a ball and chain.
brain_stew
Regular
Absolutely, its the only logical reasoning behind going with such an antiquated fixed function design imo. I don't think performance was ever even a serious consideration, other than the fat that it had to ouperform the GCN, to what degree was simply inconsequential.
Hopefully with Nintendo being stuck on such low powered hardware should mean that even a very conservative approach should allow for a very comprehensive BC through software emulation. They need their next hardware design to be capable of HD rendering as well, surely that alone is reason enough to ditch their current design? Investing R & D into scaling up Flipper/Hollywood to be capbale of that seems like such a monumental waste of time when any low end off the shelf design would comfortably outperform it anyway. Heck, their handheld hardware is going to be much more feature rich than their home console very soon, I just can't forsee such a ridiculous scenario continuing forever more.
DeadlyNinja
Veteran
Do we even know if the Tegra II rumor can be trusted? Who's to say Nintendo won't get a customed stripped down version of Tegra II so they can pay pennies for it?
brain_stew
Regular
When was the last time Nvidia designed a fixed function GPU? Heck, when was the last time any major GPU player designed a fixed function unit similar to Flipper? Even if Nintendo do get a low end Tegra or SGX or similar, it'll still be much more feature rich and flexible than Hollywood.
Secessionist
Banned
To answer the OP's question, the Wii doesn't even come close.
I agree with fearsomepirate. They're professional engineers and $10 cost (vs. $30) gives a lot of extra profit. Hopefully, Nintendo will give a lot of it back for their 6th generation with a $250-300 powerhouse and a traditional controller. I'm hoping they'll use a DX11-class GPU.
I agree with fearsomepirate. They're professional engineers and $10 cost (vs. $30) gives a lot of extra profit. Hopefully, Nintendo will give a lot of it back for their 6th generation with a $250-300 powerhouse and a traditional controller. I'm hoping they'll use a DX11-class GPU.
