r420 may beat nv40 in doom3 with anti-aliasing

[jvd]

thanks radar . That makes tons of sense .

How geforce mx cards are going to affect the dx 9 generation of games i have no clue.

The type of card the most devs are going to develop for are the type of card in the most systems . Right now i would wager for dx 9 that be ati cards . not nvidia . Thus moving foward ati will be the main platform . With the xbox 2 using ati all ati has to do is release a desktop card with similar features and perfromance and it will shift more towards them.

How nvidia barely shipping a capable dx 9 card at this date in time will automaticly swing things in favor of nvidia i have no clue. I'd like to hear how though.

 

[Tim]

Once again I'll point out that nVidia also did this with NV30, NV31, NV34 but when DX9 changed to full/partial precision from multi-precision they altered their mini-ALU's to reflect that.

You wrong again, the NV30 etc did not have mini-ALUs at all, they one full DX9/PS2 ALU (FP32/FP16) and two full DX8/PS1.1 ALUs (FX12) these ALUs. Also the change in DX9 was that PP was added instead of being only full precision.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Having said that though, I fully expect nVidia's way to prevail over time simply because more ordinary consumers own nVidia cards than ATi cards, and its the specs of low end, ordinary consumers, not high end enthusiasts that controls what tech we see appearing in future games.

Well there's loads more mach64's out there, but we're not factoring those in because they are not DX9 cards.

You're talking about DX9 features that are only usable on mid-high end DX9 cards, and this market is dominated by ATI (and has been for nearly two years now), not low end Nvidia cards that are almost incapable of running any DX9 features at usable speed. You're not going to be worried about SM 2.0 PP hints when dealing with hardware that can only run PS 1.1 .

 

[radar1200gs]

I was referring to DX9 budget and low/mid range cards, not DX 8 or before.

nVidia dominates this market, and I can assure you cards like the 5600XT thru 5900XT are extremely popular with the general public.

Most consumers stay away from the 5200 series and most reputable dealers would attempt to get them to consider something better anyway (unless the PC is mainly for non gaming usage, where a VIVO enabled 5200 is quite good value).

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

I was referring to DX9 budget and low/mid range cards, not DX 8 or before.

nVidia dominates this market, and I can assure you cards like the 5600XT thru 5900XT are extremely popular with the general public.

And this is the exact market that cannot run shaders very well, and drops down to lower shader models. You're talking about cards that run PS2.0 so badly that developers of games like TR:AOD, Halo, and Far Cry dropped them down to SM 1.1. PP hints arn't helping these cards if they are not even running SM2.0 - PP hints don't even come up in the equation.

The situation is different for NV40, but then that card has the performance not to need PP hints at all, and NV40 is neither a low end card or in the consumer space in any quantity.

Looking at OEM wins for NV40/R420 class products, again ATI will be in the majority.

 

[digitalwanderer]

No, I'm not saying nVidia's way is the only way, or the right way.

I'll leave that sort of thing to the ATi supporters who seem to think that ATi's way is the only way.

Yet again, it's not ATi's way...it's Microsoft's way. ATi just followed the industry specifications instead of trying to force the industry to adopt new ones, please get it straight.

Having said that though, I fully expect nVidia's way to prevail over time simply because more ordinary consumers own nVidia cards than ATi cards, and its the specs of low end, ordinary consumers, not high end enthusiasts that controls what tech we see appearing in future games.

So we're to thank nVidia for all the crappy 5200s floating around and their holding back of the gaming industry? :|

 

[digitalwanderer]

I was referring to DX9 budget and low/mid range cards, not DX 8 or before.

nVidia dominates this market, and I can assure you cards like the 5600XT thru 5900XT are extremely popular with the general public.

I don't think they're anyone near as popular as the R3xx was and I do believe that the R3xx base is a WHOLE lot bigger than the nV3x base.

Besides, the 5600/5900XT will still suck balls at any real dx9 games.

 

[pat777]

I was referring to DX9 budget and low/mid range cards, not DX 8 or before.

nVidia dominates this market, and I can assure you cards like the 5600XT thru 5900XT are extremely popular with the general public.

I don't think they're anyone near as popular as the R3xx was and I do believe that the R3xx base is a WHOLE lot bigger than the nV3x base.

Besides, the 5600/5900XT will still suck balls at any real dx9 games.

I think the NV3x series dominated the market outside GPU forums. After all, people in GPU forums know and care more about this stuff and brought the superior card.

 

[Doomtrooper]

High end DX9 parts ATI is the the leader, and has been for two years.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20031029073519.html

 

[digitalwanderer]

I think the NV3x series dominated the market outside GPU forums. After all, people in GPU forums know and care more about this stuff and brought the superior card.

Not on the high-end they didn't, ATi took about 80% of the high-end market since the 9700 came out and nVidia's only gotten the remaining 20%.

The word got out, it wasn't just on video card forums....we just raised up the stink that got the word out.

 

[Quitch]

I was referring to DX9 budget and low/mid range cards, not DX 8 or before.

nVidia dominates this market, and I can assure you cards like the 5600XT thru 5900XT are extremely popular with the general public.

I don't think they're anyone near as popular as the R3xx was and I do believe that the R3xx base is a WHOLE lot bigger than the nV3x base.

Besides, the 5600/5900XT will still suck balls at any real dx9 games.

I think the NV3x series dominated the market outside GPU forums. After all, people in GPU forums know and care more about this stuff and brought the superior card.

From what I saw a lot of people knew about this stuff, then bought nVidia anyway because they always had in the past. Just goes to show, browsing hardware forums doesn't make you less of an idiot.

 

[AlNom]

Having said that though, I fully expect nVidia's way to prevail over time simply because more ordinary consumers own nVidia cards than ATi cards, and its the specs of low end, ordinary consumers, not high end enthusiasts that controls what tech we see appearing in future games.

*curses the geforce4mx*

 

[Dave Baumann]

Majority of ordinary consumers are using Intel.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Majority of ordinary consumers are using Intel.

BLASPHEMY!!!

 

[Dio]

Having said that though, I fully expect nVidia's way to prevail over time simply because more ordinary consumers own nVidia cards than ATi cards, and its the specs of low end, ordinary consumers, not high end enthusiasts that controls what tech we see appearing in future games.

By that argument S3 should be rulers of the universe.

Hint: things change

 

[radar1200gs]

The Intel 810 chipset (helped by sevral cheap SiS chipsets) educated the general consumer that it is unwise to purchase systems lacking AGP slots.

Many whitebox big brand computers and entry level store built PC's make use of integrated graphics for cost reasons, but nearly all are upgradeable. These sort of PCs are sold mainly into business and web-surfing markets.

It is rather frightening just how many S3 video cards are still active in the world. Fortunately most of them inhabit P1 and PII class systems, not modern machines.