PSP question

[MfA]

As far as getting the best out of your silicon budget goes Dreamcast wins by a landslide from all other consoles this generation, I think it is a damn shame neither Nintendo nor Microsoft gave Hitachi+IMG a chance for the next gen.

 

[Fafalada]

ANYWAY, is the 8mb ram enough? yeay, i know its edram yadayada, but we said that about PS2 and then what happen....i duno, even the Ngage has what 12mb(not edram coz)?

Cuz even though it has no specialized 3d hardwayadada or sound badabada, it still has to put that databata like framybuffys and soundysamplys somewherish.

(apologizes to everyone if the words from above sentence appear anywhere else in the forum in the future )
Though last I checked GBA was getting by with far less memory and games still looked a lot like NGage ones but with better framerate.

 

[London Geezer]

ANYWAY, is the 8mb ram enough? yeay, i know its edram yadayada, but we said that about PS2 and then what happen....i duno, even the Ngage has what 12mb(not edram coz)?

Cuz even though it has no specialized 3d hardwayadada or sound badabada, it still has to put that databata like framybuffys and soundysamplys somewherish.[/quote]



THE VIRUS!!!!!!!!! IT'S SPREADING!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!



(That was hilarious Faf )

 

[rabidrabbit]

Faf! That was the first time in a long time I've laughed out loud when reading someone's post (ok l-b, you make me laugh occasionally), now I feel a bit silly because I'm working at open office

 

[hey69]

"The bad thing about PSP is...eh. PSP, itself. Unlike PDAs or even Ngage, it is just PSP, will there be enough written software for PSP? I mean Palm/Winmobile/Symbian are gona run on a large range of hardware by different groups, some standard if you will..PSP is using which OS?

HmmMMm...i guess PSP will be more game playing(duh!) and mp3 than anything else. All the PDA-ish functions might not be as cool."
////////////////////////////////////

Face it , PSP is gonna be the PLAYSTATION PORTABLE . all those extra PDA stuff and video stuff is gonna be just somthing extra features but the main core of the psp will stay a portable GAMING console . UMD will only be used as the carrier for the GAMES nothing more nothing less!

maybe as a successor for memorystick for gadgets/fotocameras (in RW form) but not to carry moviez specifcly for the PSP

and why shouldnt wifi be interesting? Belgium for example has one of the most broadband connection/user in the world . WIFI hotspots are becoming more and more popular at public places (macdonnalds, trainstations , touristic places.) shouldn't it be cool to sit down while you wait for your train for example, and make a wifi connection and play online Grand tourismo psp ?

 

[chaphack]

Butcha GBA iz a 2D game onli syztem...how be like PSP and 3D and itz expected multimedia functions worketh?

 

[chaphack]

Face it , PSP is gonna be the PLAYSTATION PORTABLE . all those extra PDA stuff and video stuff is gonna be just somthing extra features but the main core of the psp will stay a portable GAMING console . UMD will only be used as the carrier for the GAMES nothing more nothing less!

I being saya that too. Be fine with me brudder. I REALly love it to be games centric. Same with PS3. But both have to be gaming good of coz.

Oh well KK and his biggie talk again.

 

[London Geezer]

(ok l-b, you make me laugh occasionally)

occasionally?....

...occasionally?????

 

[Panajev2001a]

Or more interestingly, what is the programming model? How does it fit into the programming model?

Relying mostly on fixed functionality - actually current spec suggest it could be less programmable then PSOne.

An irrelevant statement since they constitute one logical processor

So you actually believe R4k in PSP will have a dual issue FPU? And I thought Panajev was the optimist here...

not three like we have in EE.

?
EE = R59k + 2xVU + IPU
PSP = R4k*2 + GPU + AVC + VME...
I count more units on the second chip dude.

Hey, what is with the Panajev knock-down ?

I knew it... I order those 10,000 copies of Axel Impact and the main dev decide to turn on me

Can the VFPU be used at the same time as the FPU or not ?

If a model similar to the SH-4 was chose, it would imply that the VFPU is built on top of the FPU and a hopefully fast state switch has to happen between FPU and VFPU operation.

Fafalada,

The R4000i used as main CPU has quite surely the FPU and VFPU in the COP pipes: if Deadmeat is right and they went with an SH-4 style Vector Unit then both FPU and VFPU are on the same COP1 pipe... I do not remember if the R4000i has a COP2 pipe and if it does what could be the functional unit connected to it in this case.

So, in this case the R4000i has a dual issue FPU or did I imagine the FPU in the diagrams Sony posted ?

This diagram seems to show the FPU and VFPU being separate, on separate COP pipes maybe and maybe accessible at about the same time.

( This one is from PC.WATCH, but SCE's own diagrams were reppresenting the same picture )

 

[Panajev2001a]

ANYWAY, is the 8mb ram enough? yeay, i know its edram yadayada, but we said that about PS2 and then what happen....i duno, even the Ngage has what 12mb(not edram coz)?

Cuz even though it has no specialized 3d hardwayadada or sound badabada, it still has to put that databata like framybuffys and soundysamplys somewherish.

(apologizes to everyone if the words from above sentence appear anywhere else in the forum in the future )
Though last I checked GBA was getting by with far less memory and games still looked a lot like NGage ones but with better framerate.

You are the man

 

[Fafalada]

I knew it... I order those 10,000 copies of Axel Impact

*is busy building Panajev a shrine*
It wasn't a knockdown a swear

Anyway, in regards to FPU I was simply going by the example of R5900 which even though it has two COP pipes can't issue instructions on both coprocessors at the same time.
In this situation, it the vector FPU can't operate independantly, the scalar FPU is effectivelly useless - the vector FPU can execute scalar ops every bit as efficiently, so why would you waste silicon on extra execution units and register stack?

And iirc SH4 has a single FPU that was extended to execute vector ops.

 

[marconelly!]

The "superior" DC textures/IQ is not a myth, its a reality and its all about balance

Nope, not true anymore (and I'd argue it wasn't really true from day one - TTT had better textures/IQ than either DOA2 or SC) Pretty much every DC game I can think of on DC now that I could say had good textures now has a counterpart on PS2 that has textures same or better on PS2 with tons more geometry, effects, lighting and sometimes twice the framerate. Examples: TR:AOD vs Shenmue, Jak2 vs SA2, SC2 vs SC, etc...

 

[notAFanB]

The "superior" DC textures/IQ is not a myth, its a reality and its all about balance

Nope, not true anymore (and I'd argue it wasn't really true from day one - TTT had better textures/IQ than either DOA2 or SC)

while the situation is much better now. I don't see how TTT props up you point. that title had some nice texturing but had shimmering and aliasing everywhere.

???

 

[rabidrabbit]

The "superior" DC textures/IQ is not a myth, its a reality and its all about balance

Nope, not true anymore (and I'd argue it wasn't really true from day one - TTT had better textures/IQ than either DOA2 or SC)

while the situation is much better now. I don't see how TTT props up you point. that title had some nice texturing but had shimmering and aliasing everywhere.

???

Shimmering and aliasing were on the japanese version (not sure 'bout U.S), in euro launch it was repaired and the IQ in that game can still hold a candle with newer titles (on any console).

 

[notAFanB]

What? really?

your are correct tho, I picked up the US version (PAL releases aren't great typically), and that exhibited some of the flaws above.


what did they fix exactly?

 

[rabidrabbit]

They added anti-aliasing, not sure about other changes, but the PAL version has just as good IQ as Tekken 4.
And it doesn't run any slower than normal PAL conversions without 60Hz option, and it was full-screen if I remember correct (not 16:9, but full frame 4:3 without typical bad PAL conversion black borders on the upper and lower part of the picture).

 

[chaphack]

ANYWAY, remember what i said about the odd PS2 lowy res? See what Sony has to say themselves:

Total of 4 MB of Embedded DRAM
Draw, Display, Z and Texture Buffers
What are some recommended buffer sizes?
PAL (512 x 512), NTSC (512 x 448)
Progressive scan support with full height buffers
2-Circuits of the GS to reduce interlace flicker
alpha blend odd/even fields at no cost

HmmMm...is that what ninge brought up long time ago?

 

[chaphack]

Nope, not true anymore (and I'd argue it wasn't really true from day one - TTT had better textures/IQ than either DOA2 or SC) Pretty much every DC game I can think of on DC now that I could say had good textures now has a counterpart on PS2 that has textures same or better on PS2 with tons more geometry, effects, lighting and sometimes twice the framerate. Examples: TR:AOD vs Shenmue, Jak2 vs SA2, SC2 vs SC, etc...

Hmm...long timey since i play them games, but SC1 textures are definitely more smoooothy than PS2 SC2(looks "grainy" as i have always put it) and i be surprise if Jak2 is even close to SA2, Jak1 was clean but by no means as detailed texturing as either SA games. Actually im sure Jak2 aint got the detailed texturing on SAs, Jak2 texture seem to have gotten the RC treatment based on screenshots...eewwww. then again, haven play em.

TTT...hmm no idea, but T4 aint as clean as DOA2(DC), the textures are smooth but it feels like is less colorful..(like a PDA with 8bit vs 16bit colors)..the colors feel "light".

TR...hmm...no idea...but looks like the usual PS2 look..



You remember one simonF topic bout texture compression...with pictures and all...? Them showed difference between clut and s3tc and vq and i can say THAT is whats biting PS2 textures. It so much accurate than im surprised. Ps2 textures just lack THE level of "contrast-color-fidelity", if you may.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I knew it... I order those 10,000 copies of Axel Impact

*is busy building Panajev a shrine*
It wasn't a knockdown a swear

Anyway, in regards to FPU I was simply going by the example of R5900 which even though it has two COP pipes can't issue instructions on both coprocessors at the same time.
In this situation, it the vector FPU can't operate independantly, the scalar FPU is effectivelly useless - the vector FPU can execute scalar ops every bit as efficiently, so why would you waste silicon on extra execution units and register stack?

And iirc SH4 has a single FPU that was extended to execute vector ops.

That is why people should use the VU0 in micro-mode to allow the RISC core to use the FPU and allow the VU0 and VU1 to be used at the same time ?

What do you think it is happening on the PSP ? The diagrams Sony showed seem to go a bit differently from the SH-4 approach ( single FPU extended to support Vector operations = Vector Unit that shares the FPU Hardware and need a state change... MMX was implemented in that way originally IIRC [ok, MMX is integer ] ).

Either they have both FPU and VFPU on the COP pipes and they can issue instructions to both or maybe they restricted/simplified the VFPU to execute only Vector Instructions and the Register File of the VFPU is shared with the scalar FPU ( unlikely given the EE's design, but always a possibility ).

 

[rabidrabbit]

TTT...hmm no idea, but T4 aint as clean as DOA2(DC), the textures are smooth but it feels like is less colorful..(like a PDA with 8bit vs 16bit colors)..the colors feel "light".

TR...hmm...no idea...but looks like the usual PS2 look..

Maybe those who feel DC textures were so supersharpy should play them again. In internet pictures they look often better than in real life for the sole reason that can be seen in today's consoles; the pics are higher res devkit buffer shots than what you see on telly.

T4 being less 'colourful' might be just artistic desicion. DOA games do seem to have always been high contrast colours.