PSP: Playable on show floor, impressions inside.
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Shogmaster
Regular
I'm at the show floor right now, and I have to tell ya, PSP presentation was pretty damn impressive as a hardware, and DS's was just downright pathetic.
PSP had several real time tech demoes including a version of the rubber duck in sink demo used when PS2 debued. The lighting, the rippling of the water, geometry of the objects, they were all pretty damn good. Another demo had a model of a planet that you can change the lighting and change the surface from desert planet to a "green" one with water. This one featured perrty good bumpmapping (not DOT3, which was stressed by the demo guy). Another had a character running, jumping, and rolling in a tube of a cavern, and another had a simply shaded virtual city scape that you can change the lighting etc..
And then on the other side of the demo area were actual game engines being demoed. Most were just rolling demoes, but some you could interact with in limited amounts. These looks to me about really early DC game level in geometry and shading. Interesting thing that I noticed was that all of these game engine demoes were running in 16bit color output, where as the tech demoes were running in 24bit color, so dithering was pretty evident. Still, not bad and again about equivilent to what early DC games were doing.
Game engine demoes I can recall are Ape Escape (pretty close to PS2 version in overall feel), MGS Acid (X-COM style turn based game), a hockey and soccer games (not quite DC level in geometry for the players), Tony Hawk game (looks similar to the version demoed for the MBX), Spider man game (think PS1 with PS2FXs), and a 2D traditional JP RPG (ironically the most interactive/playable of the demoes). That's a lot of freakin games demoing!
Physically, the unit is extremely well designed and put together. And that analog slider pad is pretty damn effective. I was impressed with the execution of the analog "slider" espect. Very space efficient.
The guys there were totally mum on the price though, and from looking at the thing first hand, I have no doubt that this thing will be at least $299. Some attendees were nodding their head at $399 without much rebuttal. And they were also very cagy about battery life as well. No one wanted to suggest anything solid, except to say that it's somewhere between 2.5 ~ 10 quoted by Sony.
As for DS, I'm depressed just to talk about it. Let's just say that I was gonna get the DS to replace my SP I had "lost" before today, and after looking at it and playing with it in person, I'm just going to get SP now. No way in hell I'm carrying that ugly thing in public. It's freaking HUGE for no reason to boot! Makes PSP look positively slim. The pre-hands on presentation with the skanky twin MCs (get it? twins? Two screens? X_X) didn't help matters, nor the incredibly cheesy video of executive acting mildly retarded playing with DS and messaging eachother. WTF? Execs are gonna leave their Palm pilots and PPCs at home and use DS in their workplace? PURLEEEZE!!!!
The unit itself is ugly, and uncomfortable. The shoulder buttons are now just two tiny orange circles, and are difficult to find without looking, and very uncomfortable to use. The face buttons are the size of a gnat's testicles, and if you have fat fingers, forgetaboutit. The passive digitiser in place of a analog pad is just stupid, and I don't think the gimmiky use of the digitiser is gonna advance gaming in the long run. It didn't help PDA gaming at all for instance.
The rendered images on screen was definitely sub N64. No ifs ands or buts. Some interesting FXs were pulled off in software (like chrome and specular shading), but don't mistake this for a decent 3D unit. It's ugly.
Overall, really dissapointed with the DS. Even more than I'd imagined I'd be.
PSP had several real time tech demoes including a version of the rubber duck in sink demo used when PS2 debued. The lighting, the rippling of the water, geometry of the objects, they were all pretty damn good. Another demo had a model of a planet that you can change the lighting and change the surface from desert planet to a "green" one with water. This one featured perrty good bumpmapping (not DOT3, which was stressed by the demo guy). Another had a character running, jumping, and rolling in a tube of a cavern, and another had a simply shaded virtual city scape that you can change the lighting etc..
And then on the other side of the demo area were actual game engines being demoed. Most were just rolling demoes, but some you could interact with in limited amounts. These looks to me about really early DC game level in geometry and shading. Interesting thing that I noticed was that all of these game engine demoes were running in 16bit color output, where as the tech demoes were running in 24bit color, so dithering was pretty evident. Still, not bad and again about equivilent to what early DC games were doing.
Game engine demoes I can recall are Ape Escape (pretty close to PS2 version in overall feel), MGS Acid (X-COM style turn based game), a hockey and soccer games (not quite DC level in geometry for the players), Tony Hawk game (looks similar to the version demoed for the MBX), Spider man game (think PS1 with PS2FXs), and a 2D traditional JP RPG (ironically the most interactive/playable of the demoes). That's a lot of freakin games demoing!
Physically, the unit is extremely well designed and put together. And that analog slider pad is pretty damn effective. I was impressed with the execution of the analog "slider" espect. Very space efficient.
The guys there were totally mum on the price though, and from looking at the thing first hand, I have no doubt that this thing will be at least $299. Some attendees were nodding their head at $399 without much rebuttal. And they were also very cagy about battery life as well. No one wanted to suggest anything solid, except to say that it's somewhere between 2.5 ~ 10 quoted by Sony.
As for DS, I'm depressed just to talk about it. Let's just say that I was gonna get the DS to replace my SP I had "lost" before today, and after looking at it and playing with it in person, I'm just going to get SP now. No way in hell I'm carrying that ugly thing in public. It's freaking HUGE for no reason to boot! Makes PSP look positively slim. The pre-hands on presentation with the skanky twin MCs (get it? twins? Two screens? X_X) didn't help matters, nor the incredibly cheesy video of executive acting mildly retarded playing with DS and messaging eachother. WTF? Execs are gonna leave their Palm pilots and PPCs at home and use DS in their workplace? PURLEEEZE!!!!
The unit itself is ugly, and uncomfortable. The shoulder buttons are now just two tiny orange circles, and are difficult to find without looking, and very uncomfortable to use. The face buttons are the size of a gnat's testicles, and if you have fat fingers, forgetaboutit. The passive digitiser in place of a analog pad is just stupid, and I don't think the gimmiky use of the digitiser is gonna advance gaming in the long run. It didn't help PDA gaming at all for instance.
The rendered images on screen was definitely sub N64. No ifs ands or buts. Some interesting FXs were pulled off in software (like chrome and specular shading), but don't mistake this for a decent 3D unit. It's ugly.
Overall, really dissapointed with the DS. Even more than I'd imagined I'd be.
Panajev2001a
Veteran
Shog, knowing that so far most developers did not target for 32 MB of main RAM ( notice how the tech demos are running in higher color depth ? 
) and that the emulators ( which developers do not like much, but you can ask them ) used to run at around 1-5 fps ( peak ), I am impressed by DC level polygonal detail with somewhat better special FX.
I know for a fact that at least some developers started targeting lower polygon counts than what they originally wanted for two reasons mainly: the most relevant was the 8 MB of main RAM and then you had the emulator's performance ( crappy ).
I think that the games will have a chance to improve in quality as developers get to work on faster SDKs and then full speed PSP Hardware.
) and that the emulators ( which developers do not like much, but you can ask them ) used to run at around 1-5 fps ( peak ), I am impressed by DC level polygonal detail with somewhat better special FX.I know for a fact that at least some developers started targeting lower polygon counts than what they originally wanted for two reasons mainly: the most relevant was the 8 MB of main RAM and then you had the emulator's performance ( crappy ).
I think that the games will have a chance to improve in quality as developers get to work on faster SDKs and then full speed PSP Hardware.
Shog, No offense but I'm gonna get a few more impressions before I take you seriously. I've talked to three seperate friends that are at E3 and all have just about said opposite of what you said. Now they are VERY impressed with the 3D capabilities of PSP but it's nothing innovative like DS. I mean it's a damn fine technical piece of HW but it's really just 'portable' PS2 games you will be able to take along with you..along with multimedia capabilities.
People I've talked to have been extremely impressed with the DS ideas. And the Metroid Prime Hunters game looks damn good (between N64 and DC)..I thought this thing was just gonna be a step up from GBA?!? While the system itself is'nt as sexy looking as the GBASP, it's still not finalized according to Ninty.
I wish I were there with all of you guys...I'm wit hyou on the PSP hype. I'll be waiting in line for one but I've already went to EB this morning. They've began taking preorders for the DS..I got one. There's too many cool ass ideas that can be done with this thing. Imagine playing a football game where you actually draw out each play (X's & O's) on the bottom screen and the gameplay is on the top screen showing the Wide out running the exact pattern you just drew. Pretty dang kewl if you ask me!
People I've talked to have been extremely impressed with the DS ideas. And the Metroid Prime Hunters game looks damn good (between N64 and DC)..I thought this thing was just gonna be a step up from GBA?!? While the system itself is'nt as sexy looking as the GBASP, it's still not finalized according to Ninty.
I wish I were there with all of you guys...I'm wit hyou on the PSP hype. I'll be waiting in line for one but I've already went to EB this morning. They've began taking preorders for the DS..I got one. There's too many cool ass ideas that can be done with this thing. Imagine playing a football game where you actually draw out each play (X's & O's) on the bottom screen and the gameplay is on the top screen showing the Wide out running the exact pattern you just drew. Pretty dang kewl if you ask me!
Lazy8s said:
Hey, they put out gems like FF IV on WonderSwan
With Sony holding a large number of Square (now Squenix) shares, it's not like they're truly independent.Besides, Sony has said that the royalties on PSP games will be quite low to attract developer support. So why wouldn't a conservative company like Squenix support a potential gold mine that is PSP?
Only thing I could think of would be strange restrictive covenants relating to 'Final Fantasy' and 'hand held systems' in their agreement with Nintendo and GBA.
I hope a surprise anouncement is coming..
Well since you're calling the GBA a "console", what about the PS2, GCN, PSOne, WSC, PC? Square-Enix isn't really THAT conservative... My old coworkers there tell me it's only a matter of time and that they are looking into the PSP. The DS is more of a question mark although I imagine GDS would probably dev some titles for it....
Large number? It's not even 10%!!!
Goldni said:
[Keanu Reeves]Woah[/Keanu Reeves]
Meaning between N64 and DC, is meaning >N64, wich is definitely not obvious... Point filtering/software rendering only put it under N64, IMHO.
Goldni said:
... And that's a lot.
Goldni said:
Cool ideas that even Nintendo could not find... except if put a map on screen 2 is labeled "cool" nowadays.
Sorry but i'm underwhelmed by the DS for the moment , i won't even talk about it specs, just about the fact that Nintendo didn't even showed one game that justify all those "revolutionnary" claims...IMHO
I imagined that we'll see at least some puzzle games that will take advantage of the Dual screens, something that's not graphicly exceptional but so addictive when you play it... Ã la Tetris. Or a game that will be so cool and so tied to its machine (two screen + touchpad) that it worth alone to buy the DS.
Instead of that they showed us games that have nothing special, except a gimmick or two (add a "stylus chat" to a game is what i call a gimmick but it's just me).
I'll buy the machine that's a fact(i'm a console collector), but what i'm not buying is the fact that it's revolutionnary. Only time will tell anyway.
Shogmaster
Regular
Goldni said:
Hey man. No offense taken. Afterall, it's just another man's opinion in a sea of opinions, so you take it as you will. But I would like to point out that A) I'm neither a Nintendo fan nor a hater, so my view of the DS is not tainted by bias in one way or another, and B) I do obesess about handheld devices more than your average Joe, having owned and used various Palm OS and PPC devices for the last 8 years, so things like a passive digitiser in gaming is nothing new to me, and so I won't suffer from the excessive "Ooh! a touch screen!" wow-factor that most people seem to have fallen into with the DS.
I will admit, they were cute ideas. Drawing a pac-man shape to create a line art pac-man that gobbles up ghost was "neat-o". But after the initial cuteness wears off in few minutes, you're left with not much of a "game". The same with the virtual lathe (sp?) demo they had. After a minute, most were making penis shapes to amuse themselves while waiting for the next demo to open up. Neat? Sure. Fun? Maybe for a minute. Gaming revolution? I don't see it. And I lived with a stylus in my hand for the last 8 years.
NonononononononoNO! I know what I said about opinions and all but that's is just f'n wrong dude. MP Hunter is somewhere between Saturn and PSOne. N64 don't even enter into it, let alone the DC. No f'n way. I don't care how thick your MP or Nintendo goggle is, that's just wrong. No sir. I veto that whole notion out of principle!
I certainly hope it's not finalized, but as I see it (as an industrial designer no less), the design of the casing is done. The only change will be the color of the plastics used.
I think you might want to aim low on expectations of the whole passive digitiser aspect on the gaming. You'll be less disappointed later IMHO.
The problem is really that the battery life and the size (and probably the price) will kill the PSP, superior design or graphics doesn't really matter then anymore. There is no use to buy a portable if it ain't really portable I see Sega Game Gear and Atari Lynx all over again.
The Game Gear was vastly superior, especially because of the color display and the backlight! But then after 2 hours the batteries went flat.
I see Sega Game Gear and Atari Lynx all over again.The Game Gear was vastly superior, especially because of the color display and the backlight! But then after 2 hours the batteries went flat.
thop said:The problem is really that the battery life and the size (and probably the price) will kill the PSP, superior design or graphics doesn't really matter then anymore. There is no use to buy a portable if it ain't really portable
The Game Gear was vastly superior, especially because of the color display and the backlight! But then after 2 hours the batteries went flat.
Lynx and Gamegear were the size of a Ford Pinto too.
And they were using non rechargeable batteries (6 batteries for the GG), as they were targeted to kids, Mom and Dad would have to pay the mentionned batteries with a life of a few hours (it depend of the batteries). Sure it killed those two machines.
