PS4 Pro, checkerboard rendering

[Scott_Arm]

I don't think they have any specific fixed function hw specifically tailored for Checker-board rendering, solely on the basis that that doesn't feel like a very cerny thing to do. When they said they have special hardware to aid that kind of stuff, I understand that they've made certain architectural changes to how rasterization is done or other steps of the pipeline that allow this kind of algorithm to run more optimally.

I'm only going by the digital foundry article, that referred to it as a hardware "upscaler" and Jonathan Blow's comments that seemed to suggest it was a feature that could be turned on/off.

Very possible that it's a number of optimizations that would benefit this approach, rather than a single solution.

 

[Scott_Arm]

@milk This is the quote that seems to suggest it's an on/off type of feature, and one of the easiest solutions, but it's very possible he's just simplifying:

It is definitely true that if you had a game running on the original PS4, and the developer wants to do the most straightforward thing to make the game look better on the Pro, that developer could enable checkerboard rendering and the game will look better and run faster; so it’s “free” in that sense. But if you are going to get picky about how you are spending the GPU memory and bandwidth of the new machine, then there are tradeoffs here, like with anything.)

Read more: http://wccftech.com/blow-checkerboa...y-free-might-better-uses-power/#ixzz4K4XUZmBP

Edit: I'm interpreting his comments at that link to mean it's a feature that requires some setup, but then you "enable" it. But obviously, he could be simplifying things greatly for the audience.

 

[MrFox]

There might be multiple methods available, from the simplest upscaling, to very complex method using motion vectors and z-buffer and previous frame, temporal data, geometry hints, etc....

I wonder why it's 2x2 instead of 1 pixel. Is this to allow decoding edges in 2D to better fill in the blanks? Or for cache performance?

 

[Scott_Arm]

...
I wonder why it's 2x2 instead of 1 pixel. Is this to allow decoding edges in 2D to better fill in the blanks? Or for cache performance?

I don't know. That's something that Digital Foundry linked in their article about their time with PS4 Pro, but they were linking to a Valve slide presentation about their method for "checkerboard" rendering, which is sparse on detail. It's very possible the 2x2 grid is not what Sony is doing. Maybe I should update the OP to make that clear.

Edit: Around slide 21 http://alex.vlachos.com/graphics/Alex_Vlachos_Advanced_VR_Rendering_Performance_GDC2016.pdf

Says 2x2 quads match current GPU architectures. The Valve method is not temporal. It just reconstructs pixels using near pixels. There are a couple steps, so I guess that grid pattern is beneficial to the way they guess at a good value.

 

[Globalisateur]

There might be multiple methods available, from the simplest upscaling, to very complex method using motion vectors and z-buffer and previous frame, temporal data, geometry hints, etc....

I wonder why it's 2x2 instead of 1 pixel. Is this to allow decoding edges in 2D to better fill in the blanks? Or for cache performance?

The smallest work unit in modern GPUs is the pixel quad (2x2 pixels).

http://developer.amd.com/wordpress/media/2013/05/GCNPerformanceTweets.pdf

 

[AlNom]

Something something pixel quads?

Edit : yes

 

[MrFox]

Ah thanks, that also explains the technique they use for PSVR where the edges of the screen have different patterns in quads to make some gaussian hole pattern. This hardware helper will be very useful for PSVR.

I guess even without VR they don't have to make the entire screen uniform, they could have, for a racing game, a precision filled center and less samples at the edges of the screen. Or something dynamic which max out the resolution toward the horizon line.

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/748313.html

 

[Clukos]

Drilling down into PS4 Pro’s 4K graphics on Horizon Zero Dawn

 

[MrFox]

It’s all very complicated and Mark Cerny has a fantastic seminar planned in a couple of weeks where he goes into the nitty-gritty of it.

It's like all devs are under strict NDA until Cerny talks about it, hopefully soon. Ubisoft montreal also said it was neither native nor upscaled, but said they were not allowed to talk about the details of checkerboard reconstruction "at this time". All interviews so far end that way, and they point out to this upcoming seminar by Cerny.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Clear as mud!!!

 

[MrFox]

In the mean time, gamers who want to know IF the reconstruction technique works, instead of HOW it works, can listen to this...

It will be more productive than harassing devs on twitter.

 

[BRiT]

It will be more productive than harassing devs on twitter.

One shouldn't expect anything productive from devs; they're lazy. Duh.

 

[babcat]

Does anyone know the answer to this question. Does Sony allow developers to use checkerboard rendering to go from 720P to 1080P to meet the minimum requirement?

 

[Boxercide]

Does anyone know the answer to this question. Does Sony allow developers to use checkerboard rendering to go from 720P to 1080P to meet the minimum requirement?

No. The minimum rendering res is 1080p for the Pro.

 

[babcat]

The 1080P must be rendered in native format?

 

[Rodéric]

as long as the minimal req for PS4Pro isn't 1080@60 it's useless, besides big studios often manage to get the rules bent for them...

 

[milk]

Does anyone know the answer to this question. Does Sony allow developers to use checkerboard rendering to go from 720P to 1080P to meet the minimum requirement?

Irrelevant. Nobody will do it. Accept reality.

 

[Clukos]

New DF video on the Pro

DF is doing a -way- better job at explaining what the Pro is and what it does than Sony themselves

 

[bgroovy]

New DF video on the Pro

DF is doing a -way- better job at explaining what the Pro is and what it does than Sony themselves

All they really did was listen to and remember what Sony said so they could relay that information to their audience. It's rather tragic that has made their coverage such an outlier.

 

[MrFox]

All they really did was listen to and remember what Sony said so they could relay that information to their audience. It's rather tragic that has made their coverage such an outlier.

Yep.

Kinda funny, gamestop, ign, and giant bomb, just made shit up and provided zero information, none of them could even be bothered to show up at the meeting (all expenses paid), to at least relay what they saw on a real 4K HDR screen. You know, doing their job instead of inviting like-minded friends over to their show, and never look up facts. Greg used to provide intelligent discussions, now he works for a dumpster publication selling clothes and microwave food from sponsors.

Richard is getting ahead of the pack because he understands some of the technology involved, and he's talking about things which precedes Mark Cerny seminar about 4k reconstruction. After that, at least it should be picked up by most incompetent click whores. Maybe I'm rude. I'm very rude, I'll edit my post later when I am sober, possibly guilt ridden.