PS3's lack of xvid/divx/etc. support - tell me again?

[xatnys]

Every time I see this question it's answered with the "it's what the pirates use, therefore we don't support it" reason. Is that really it? I mean, is this a matter of maintaining an antipiracy image (towards other movie companies), or something that could possibly implicate their market? Or is it something else?

Wouldn't the ps3 enjoy more sales if it boasted being able to support a much broader range of media formats?

 

[JPT]

IMHO I belive its because xvid/divx etc is based on early drafts of mpeg4 ie mpeg4 avc is the superior codec.

If you look at torrent sites that offer HD versions of tv series etc, you will notice that an increasing part of those are encoded in h.264/mpeg4 avc. ie the piracy angel is moot point and its probably a case of sony thinking that divx/xvid won't be around to much longer, atleast not long enough to warrant implementing support for it and the maintaining it.

From what I understand DVB forum people are going h.264 and then there is no need to reencode to divx/xvid since the captures will already be encoded in h.264.

 

[Asher]

I've had lots of problems getting the PS3 to play MPEG4 "Advanced profile" stuff, which is what's needed for DivX/XViD as well. It only supports "Simple profile" MPEG4, like the Xbox 360, from what I can tell.

I very much doubt it's because they expect DivX to go away, it's because it is a common piracy format and Sony makes money from their movies...

 

[Cheezdoodles]

They would also need to pay licences in order to use all those formats.

 

[crystalcube]

Xvid and divx are both MP4 (SP) formats sort of. and Ps3 plays them. What PS3 doesn't support is AVI container format, that is fine because no matter how popular AVi format is , its still not a standard format. So if you convert your xvid AVi to MP4 format Ps3 should be able to play them.

 

[patsu]

They would also need to pay licences in order to use all those formats.

Yeah... I think that's the main reason.

How big is the installed base of DivX/Xvid codecs though ? If there are enough interests, Sony or a third party could sell a codec pack for PS3. I believe supporting or not supporting DivX/Xvid codec makes little difference to the piracy war.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Sony already support Divx/Xvid on their standalone DVD players. There are some issues, and it does seem to be a lip-service so they can put the logos on the front of their players to make them easier to sell. If there was a serious anti-piracy stance, it would extend to their standalone players too.

 

[Asher]

Xvid and divx are both MP4 (SP) formats sort of. and Ps3 plays them. What PS3 doesn't support is AVI container format, that is fine because no matter how popular AVi format is , its still not a standard format. So if you convert your xvid AVi to MP4 format Ps3 should be able to play them.

There's such a thing as a de facto standard, whether it's an ISO standard is rather irrelevant.

That said, I've experimented with MPEG4 encodings on my PS3. I can only get MPEG4 videos to play if, in Nero Recode, I select "Use Simple Profile (for QuickTime compatibility). If I don't choose that, the PS3 tells me it can't read the file.

Why does it only support SP? Can get better compression with advanced.

 

[one]

Why does it only support SP? Can get better compression with advanced.

To be precise DivX5 and such are Advanced Simple Profile.

 

[patsu]

There's such a thing as a de facto standard, whether it's an ISO standard is rather irrelevant.

That said, I've experimented with MPEG4 encodings on my PS3. I can only get MPEG4 videos to play if, in Nero Recode, I select "Use Simple Profile (for QuickTime compatibility). If I don't choose that, the PS3 tells me it can't read the file.

Why does it only support SP? Can get better compression with advanced.

Asher, did you perform the playback over DLNA only, or from HDD ?

 

[Asher]

This was all over DLNA.

 

[patsu]

Ok, thanks for testing these out. It saved me time
I wonder what they (are going to) use for RemotePlay and Playstation Home media sharing. Something like Advanced Simple Profile would help.

 

[crystalcube]

There's such a thing as a de facto standard, whether it's an ISO standard is rather irrelevant.

Again AVI is not a de facto standard in CE space only PC space.

Why does it only support SP? Can get better compression with advanced.

I have not tried over streaming but PS3 does play AVC files upto profile 4.1 . All the HD movie trailers from PSN are in AVC format. Nero was supposed to come up with added support for AVc for PS3 , have not checked if they released it or not.

 

[Asher]

Again AVI is not a de facto standard in CE space only PC space.

The whole point of the DLNA stuff is to bring your PC space media to the CE space.

I have not tried over streaming but PS3 does play AVC files upto profile 4.1 . All the HD movie trailers from PSN are in AVC format. Nero was supposed to come up with added support for AVc for PS3 , have not checked if they released it or not.

I tried encoding using the latest Nero and AVC, and it didn't play. Which is also confusing -- isn't MPEG4 AVC a standard the PS3 supports?

 

[patsu]

The whole point of the DLNA stuff is to bring your PC space media to the CE space.


I tried encoding using the latest Nero and AVC, and it didn't play. Which is also confusing -- isn't MPEG4 AVC a standard the PS3 supports?

Yes it is confusing. There are more than 1 profiles in AVC H.264 and MPEG4.
If memory serves me, PS3 supports the MPEG 4 Main Profile Level 4.1 (suitable for broadcast services) and also MPEG 4 AVC (Blu-ray). MPEG 4 Advanced Simple Profile is suitable for Internet streaming. I believe the Simple Profile is suitable for real-time encoding such as video conferencing.

I'd be surprised if Sony doesn't support Advanced Simple Profile in the near future (if not already).

EDIT:
For the most part, I think container differences in 3GPP, AVI and such should not be a problem. The Media Server should be able to parse and extract the relevant streams. The codecs and the DRM are issues that touch on business (e.g., royalty), and will be more difficult to address... unless Sony setup with its own extensive online distribution platform.

Meanwhile DLNA is more for home and Internet media.

 

[crystalcube]

According to DLNA website

for AV Media MPEG2 is required format while MPEG-1, MPEG-4*, AVC, WMV9 are optional formats. So it seems at present you can only count on MPEG2 to be supported reliably.

 

[mrcorbo]

EDIT:
For the most part, I think container differences in 3GPP, AVI and such should not be a problem. The Media Server should be able to parse and extract the relevant streams.

It wouldn't work quite like that. You have to encapsulate the A/V stream in some sort of container. The container format isn't just a box that you put the A/V streams in. It also contains information that's necessary for playback. Essentially you talking about demuxing out of one container and re-muxing into another with the possible added complication of having to re-encode the source media into a format that the destination container supports (MP4, for example, is very sprecific about the formats it supports) even if the original file uses A/V formats that the playback device itself supports individually (like MP4 AVC video with AC3 audio soundtrack).

It's doable, but awkward. Having the support for the original container is much better from a quality/usability standpoint.

 

[one]

It wouldn't work quite like that. You have to encapsulate the A/V stream in some sort of container. The container format isn't just a box that you put the A/V streams in. It also contains information that's necessary for playback. Essentially you talking about demuxing out of one container and re-muxing into another with the possible added complication of having to re-encode the source media into a format that the destination container supports (MP4, for example, is very sprecific about the formats it supports) even if the original file uses A/V formats that the playback device itself supports individually (like MP4 AVC video with AC3 audio soundtrack).

It's doable, but awkward. Having the support for the original container is much better from a quality/usability standpoint.

Why is transcoding realtime into a format supported in DLNA Guideline awkward? That's exactly what's done right now.

 

[Kryton]

Why is transcoding realtime into a format supported in DLNA Guideline awkward? That's exactly what's done right now.

Because, potentially, you need to access the entire file to find out the necessary meta-data. This is why it's hard to, for example, stream Internet based radio to DLNA boxes because they expect a fixed 'length' when there simply isn't one. Similarly, some container formats might require the length of the format is stored in milliseconds at byte 16, in little-endian whereas the source container may just state it is a variable bit-rate format (thereby prohibiting a simple calculation) with a sequence of frames i.e. no header data aside a magic-byte identifier.

 

[one]

Because, potentially, you need to access the entire file to find out the necessary meta-data.

What prohibits a DLNA server that has a source movie from accessing the entire file?

As for a practical example, Intel Viiv Media Server transcodes DivX 5 in avi to MPEG-2 (Program Stream, Transport Stream, and DLNA Transport Stream).

http://www.intel.com/support/desktopplatforms/viiv/sb/cs-022795.htm