DudeMiester
Regular
They might have two versions, one with and one without an HD. Personally I don't want some paltry 20GB drive, give me 80GB or give me death.
PS3 to Launch with no HD?!?
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RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
The entire BR issue is pure stupidity, and the proof is in the asking: "If Sony didn't have a vested interest in the format, would they be including it in the PS3?"
The answer, clearly, is NO. Sony has already admitted that the BR drive isn't being included to improve game play or game performance, its only there to act as a HD movie player. Again, there might be a handful of people who see the value in that, but most who actually care will have the means and desire to buy a stand alone BR player, should the format actually be adopted and should a large enough library be available... which is almost completely unlikely to happen by the time the PS3 launches.
I don't see how you can get around the fact that Sony is including expensive components that most consumers won't want or see any benefit from at the expense of other components that most consumers actually do want and would see benefit from.
Like I said previously, if Sony were planning on making use of the BR drive to improve the game experience, go for it! But they clearly aren't. Sony is including it only because they have so much invested in the format they have to recover the costs somehow, even if only as a propriatary format for the PS3 console. And they are doing that at the expense of including a HDD that consumers actually want and actually would improve the game experience.
Somebody did ask a good question though, in terms of the X360.. do developers have to assume that all x360s have a harddrive attached? Or do they have to assume that because the drive is removable, that some may not have any drive?
In fact, is the X360 HDD simply upgradable or is it removable? Does the X360 even function without the HDD? I would hope not, forcing (allowing) developers to use its functionality with every game.
The answer, clearly, is NO. Sony has already admitted that the BR drive isn't being included to improve game play or game performance, its only there to act as a HD movie player. Again, there might be a handful of people who see the value in that, but most who actually care will have the means and desire to buy a stand alone BR player, should the format actually be adopted and should a large enough library be available... which is almost completely unlikely to happen by the time the PS3 launches.
I don't see how you can get around the fact that Sony is including expensive components that most consumers won't want or see any benefit from at the expense of other components that most consumers actually do want and would see benefit from.
Like I said previously, if Sony were planning on making use of the BR drive to improve the game experience, go for it! But they clearly aren't. Sony is including it only because they have so much invested in the format they have to recover the costs somehow, even if only as a propriatary format for the PS3 console. And they are doing that at the expense of including a HDD that consumers actually want and actually would improve the game experience.
Somebody did ask a good question though, in terms of the X360.. do developers have to assume that all x360s have a harddrive attached? Or do they have to assume that because the drive is removable, that some may not have any drive?
In fact, is the X360 HDD simply upgradable or is it removable? Does the X360 even function without the HDD? I would hope not, forcing (allowing) developers to use its functionality with every game.
Shark Sandwich
Regular
You're forgetting that PS3 isn't a gaming machine, it's a home computer entertainment system 
Well that pushes the cost of the PS3 up for me yet again, buying storage media on top of the price of the console.
XBox saved me money since I didn't need memory cards, and now the X360 will do the same.
And before anyone says it, I know PS3 supports existing media formats such as SD, CF, etc. But I don't have CF/SD sticks lying around my house.. I have one in my camera, one in my phone, etc. I don't want to have to turn off my mobile, disable my camera, etc so I can play games. I (and I assume 99% of all others here agree) will buy a separate card for game saves, and that card will be smaller than what comes standard with the X360.
So the consumer suffers, so Sony make more money. Yay for Sony.
XBox saved me money since I didn't need memory cards, and now the X360 will do the same.
And before anyone says it, I know PS3 supports existing media formats such as SD, CF, etc. But I don't have CF/SD sticks lying around my house.. I have one in my camera, one in my phone, etc. I don't want to have to turn off my mobile, disable my camera, etc so I can play games. I (and I assume 99% of all others here agree) will buy a separate card for game saves, and that card will be smaller than what comes standard with the X360.
So the consumer suffers, so Sony make more money. Yay for Sony.
RancidLunchmeat said:
I agree with everything you said except for the italics. We really don't know if in lieu of a BR drive if Sony would have included a HDD. Heck, even with a plain jane DVD drive they may not have decreased the price either. We just don't know what the outcome would have been.
FWIW, I would have preferred a HD over a BR drive. I think using consoles as media players = teh suck over a good dedicated player.
It was never a decision between BR or HDD. The cost of the BluRay is being written off as the cost of competing in the next gen format war. Therefore I think it's ludicrous to talk about it as if they sacrificed the HDD to include it. Whether or not a HDD is packed in will be determined completely independant of the BR's inclusion. The Blu-Ray drive's cost isn't a factor.
Saying that they don't care about BR for games only reinforces this view. Not that I think that's true. There's no reason why games can't come out on BR. Same way early PS2 games came on CD, but DVDs are now standard.
Saying that they don't care about BR for games only reinforces this view. Not that I think that's true. There's no reason why games can't come out on BR. Same way early PS2 games came on CD, but DVDs are now standard.
DudeMiester said:
Honestly why do you think 20 gigs is paltry ? That is alot of room.
What would really be nice is if they include special software that see games data and saves you haven't used in say 3+ months and compresses that data till its needed again. That way if you haven't played pdz in 5 months it will be zipped all game saves , maps , weapons , skins . Then un compressed when needed.
Anyway this is what i believe ms will do
20 gig pack in. Should be very cheap for them . It may still cost us 60$ for a 2.5 inch 20 gig but in bulk by the millions ms will most likely get them for 20ish .
Then see them do an 80 gig drive for 100$ as an add on or a 180 gig drive for 200$
DudeMiester
Regular
Well I was thinking of the price, but I forgot it actually uses 2.5" drives, which are more expensive. Still I want 40GB. I guess it's really just an e-penis thing though. Ego stroking and whatnot.
scooby_dooby
Legend
ralexand said:
Ya but if they are going to give it TV recording capabilities, like a TiVo, then 20GB is not neraly enough room.
Jay Allard definately showed something of the like in the E3 demo, when he switched from a game, to a recorded NFL touchdown all with the XBOX controller.
With that said 20GB is plenty for the majority of users. And people like me, who want the extra capacity will gladly pay to purchase a 120 or 160gig upgrade.
scooby_dooby said:
I believe that was supposed to be a tv channel. Obviously taped and played back because of the live event .
But its supposed to be you can be watching tv and the x360 will show a message on your screen on whatever your watching . Not that your recording something and playing it back . There is no video input to do that on the x360 unless ati developed a break away box for it that we don't know about
scooby_dooby
Legend
ya, I had the same thoughts as well.
But I came to the conclusion that in order to be watching TV on the xbox like you mentioned, and get screen alerts, the 360 must have a TV-tuner in some form. Either that, or the TV your watching is being streamed from a PC.
If the 360 does have a TV tuner as an add on, then it's likely they will offer PVR functionaliy along with an upgraded HD. ooh. just though of somethine...PVR Pack for XBOX(included PVR software, TV tuner, TV Out, and a 160gb HD)...drools..
That's probably wihful thinking on my part. I think what we actually saw was a netwrok connection with a PC running Windows Media Edition, the media edition had the tuner, and the xbox was either streaming live TV or playing back recorded TV off the PC. That would be my guess. Although if that's the case, the load times were amazing.
Although, the MS guys GOTTA be thinking about my PVR Pack idea, it's just too damn obvious....
But I came to the conclusion that in order to be watching TV on the xbox like you mentioned, and get screen alerts, the 360 must have a TV-tuner in some form. Either that, or the TV your watching is being streamed from a PC.
If the 360 does have a TV tuner as an add on, then it's likely they will offer PVR functionaliy along with an upgraded HD. ooh. just though of somethine...PVR Pack for XBOX(included PVR software, TV tuner, TV Out, and a 160gb HD)...drools..
That's probably wihful thinking on my part. I think what we actually saw was a netwrok connection with a PC running Windows Media Edition, the media edition had the tuner, and the xbox was either streaming live TV or playing back recorded TV off the PC. That would be my guess. Although if that's the case, the load times were amazing.
Although, the MS guys GOTTA be thinking about my PVR Pack idea, it's just too damn obvious....
scooby_dooby
Legend
jvd said:
really, cool. I learned something new today!
If you want XBL alerts while watching TV, maybe X360 should have dual outputs like the PS3.
Actually, anyone with a PIP TV could get that functionality. In fact, I play sometimes play while running a TV show in the other window. It's not PIP, it's Sony's Twin View so the pics are side by side and I can make one big while correspondingly making the other smaller.
It seems like MS is trying to go for people spending a lot of time connected to XBL, even if they're not playing a game or even chatting. But I thought there were going to be hooks to MSN Messenger as well?
As for the PVR idea, most people would go for a dedicated unit because if the PVR can't run when you want to play games, it wouldn't be reliable would it? Imagine it didn't record 24 one week because you forgot there was a recording scheduled and you were playing a game instead? That assumes that the X360 can't record and play games at the same time without the CPU hit drastically affecting one or the other function or both.
Microsoft's preferred solution is that you buy a MCE PC to use as PVR and then stream the recording to the X360 if your MC isn't hooked up to your HDTV (although there's no reason why it shouldn't be unless you're out of inputs).
Actually, anyone with a PIP TV could get that functionality. In fact, I play sometimes play while running a TV show in the other window. It's not PIP, it's Sony's Twin View so the pics are side by side and I can make one big while correspondingly making the other smaller.
It seems like MS is trying to go for people spending a lot of time connected to XBL, even if they're not playing a game or even chatting. But I thought there were going to be hooks to MSN Messenger as well?
As for the PVR idea, most people would go for a dedicated unit because if the PVR can't run when you want to play games, it wouldn't be reliable would it? Imagine it didn't record 24 one week because you forgot there was a recording scheduled and you were playing a game instead? That assumes that the X360 can't record and play games at the same time without the CPU hit drastically affecting one or the other function or both.
Microsoft's preferred solution is that you buy a MCE PC to use as PVR and then stream the recording to the X360 if your MC isn't hooked up to your HDTV (although there's no reason why it shouldn't be unless you're out of inputs).
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