PS3 online delaying the console??

[!eVo!-X Ant UK]

With new reports being uncovered about Sonys plans for PS3 on-line and how many features it has and how Sony are playing seriously. Some stuff even points to the PS3 online launching the same day as the console it-self. Could it be that the console is ready and that there just waitng for the online to get to the complete phase???

Kaz did say he could release it when ever he wanted, maybe he was hinting at that he could relese it, but with-out online to back it up.

Is this a possibility???

 

[Hardknock]

If everything was ready, including hardware and games it would be released, we'd have played games, and more devs would have final dev kits...

 

[!eVo!-X Ant UK]

If everything was ready, including hardware and games it would be released, we'd have played games, and more devs would have final dev kits...

But the point im trying to put across is that Everything might not be ready "Online" thus delaying the console.

 

[Titanio]

It was Kutaragi who said that - i could make PS3 whenever i want - but it was in the context of standards finalisation (HDMI, AACS etc.) not online.

 

[dukmahsik]

sony had better take a long hard look at their "online service"... it takes a gigantic of engineering and logistical effor and years of community build up to equate to Live. they are 2-3 steps way behind.

 

[Bobbler]

sony had better take a long hard look at their "online service"... it takes a gigantic of engineering and logistical effor and years of community build up to equate to Live. they are 2-3 steps way behind.

You do know that a lot of that cool stuff in Xb Live now was done by Sony already? They had a service (still might) in Japan that had webbrowser, downloads (trailers, little games, etc), and some other junk (it required the HDD -- I can't remember the name of it at the moment, and my searching abilities are kind of limited at work... I'll post the name if I can remember). So it isn't like they are completely out of the loop on it all -- and it likely isn't as difficult as MS wants to make it seem.

The Community part is kind of moot, as that comes when they start the service.

 

[Titanio]

it takes a gigantic of engineering and logistical effor and years of community build up to equate to Live.

Sounds familiar..

It's going to be really hard for them. It's just a huge engineering challenge, and beyond the engineering challenge, it takes a long time to build a community.

 

[fireshot]

You do know that a lot of that cool stuff in Xb Live now was done by Sony already? They had a service (still might) in Japan that had webbrowser, downloads (trailers, little games, etc), and some other junk (it required the HDD -- I can't remember the name of it at the moment, and my searching abilities are kind of limited at work... I'll post the name if I can remember). So it isn't like they are completely out of the loop on it all -- and it likely isn't as difficult as MS wants to make it seem.

The Community part is kind of moot, as that comes when they start the service.

and isn't as easy as you say. The thing in Japan that you must pay seperate monthly fees for a few measly games? What is stopping them from bringing that service out of Japan? It is that easy right?

If they have it, they will flaunt it. Period. It is not only us that are impatient, their most trusted publishers have made confidence votes for XBL.

 

[Titanio]

If they have it, they will flaunt it. Period. It is not only us that are impatient, their most trusted publishers have made confidence votes for XBL.

No one is questioning the viability of Live..?

Supporting Live does not imply a lack of confidence in what Sony is doing. As long as Sony supports their service through PS3's life, it'll likely curry favour amongst publishers, as Sony's model should provide them with a lot more direct control. Heck, EA exclusively supported PS2's online service for some time.

 

[Bobbler]

and isn't as easy as you say. The thing in Japan that you must pay seperate monthly fees for a few measly games? What is stopping them from bringing that service out of Japan? It is that easy right?

If they have it, they will flaunt it. Period. It is not only us that are impatient, their most trusted publishers have made confidence votes for XBL.

I'm confused here... where did I say it was easy?

I merely said it isn't likely as difficult as MS makes it seem (as they have a marketing reason for saying that -- putting doubt in people's mind about its competitor's ability to match their service). I also said that all those cool things that MS added with X360 were already on PS2 in Japan (for those HDD users), so it isn't as if Sony is completely starting with no experience.

If you want to try to discredit or counter my post, then you should probably start with things I actually said.

 

[dukmahsik]

Sounds familiar..

sounds realistic

 

[Titanio]

sounds realistic

Well, the community point is a moot one. In Sony's case, if they build it, they will come (particularly if it's free).

On the engineering side..across the board, it's not like Sony's starting from scratch. Even things like eyetoy: chat, help here. And they've had quite some time to work on this. If rumour is to be believed, they hit reset and started working toward it quite some time ago.

I don't want to underestimate the challenge, but there are companies out there a lot less resourced that Sony providing web services as complex or more complex than Live - for free. Again, that's not to say it's not difficult..but there's no danger of MS exactly underestimating the challenge here, as Bobbler points out.

Personally my expectations out of Sony for online are quite low. Not because of what they can or can't do, but what they're willing or motivated to do. But I'm willing to be surprised.

 

[pegisys]

I don't want to underestimate the challenge, but there are companies out there a lot less resourced that Sony providing web services as complex or more complex than Live - for free. Again, that's not to say it's not difficult..but there's no danger of MS exactly underestimating the challenge here, as Bobbler points out.

Like what, the closest thing on the PC as far as being intergrated with games is gamespy, and it sucks. maybe you can say steam but thats only for valve/steam games

I'm not saying they can't make the service but I don't think it will be free, they would still have to pay for content servers and some type of administration and I don't see them footing the bill

 

[Titanio]

Like what, the closest thing on the PC as far as being intergrated with games is gamespy, and it sucks. maybe you can say steam but thats only for valve/steam games

Think more generally. Live basically offers a information and membership management service and download service. There are lots of services out there, not necessarily games related, that offer services of the same, or greater complexity, for free.

The actually "playing the game bit" isn't done at MS's expense, generally. Games are mostly hosted by individual 360 consoles.

I'm not saying they can't make the service but I don't think it will be free, they would still have to pay for content servers and some type of administration and I don't see them footing the bill

Well first of all, you do have web services out there offering download services for large files for free.

Content servers, though, can generate their own revenue via microtransactions. The bandwidth required by that is perhaps the biggest expense in an operation like Live, but it's also one that can probably pay for itself, and then some.

Again, this isn't to say Sony will do jack.

 

[patsu]

In general...

The engineering part is the "easiest" challenge. All the technologies are available since the Internet boom. Please don't make it sound like they are more challenging/difficult than it really is. Most of the effort would be system integration.

More difficult is the operation (customer support, technical support, security incidents, regular maintenance, moderation) because it's a never ending chain of tragedy. This is where the current Sony Connect starts to show its weaknesses based on another post on B3D. It's more than server machines humming in the backroom. Sometimes when products have low margins, staffers become less "on-the-ball" (It's just 1 song, what's the big deal). Hopefully with elevated corporate profile, more passionate operators are in place. Having the right people here will show in terms of quality of service.

Next up the difficulty level is UI. It's not difficult to build an "ok" UI, but it _is_ difficult to build a simple, consistent, intuitive and extensible UI given complex needs and lack of time. Most of the sites today are very cluttered, including most of Sony's. Cross Media Bar is an ok UI in my opinion. As I last heard, they are extending it for PS3.

Then comes the community. In this department Sony should have significantly less problems. Xbox Live started from ground zero, that's why community build up is a real challenge. The Playstation brand has existed for 10 years. If Sony builds it, millions of fans _will_ come. The problem is more with moderation, generally done with the help of the user community itself.

The most difficult is the business model. And I believe this is the reason delaying/limiting/stopping Sony's effort to date. It could not find a sustaining business model to run all the above. I am glad that Sony takes the time to think through. If the PSM article is correct, it seems that they have figured out their numbers and are on the move.

So yes running an online service like XBL is not easy, but unlike XBL Sony is not starting from ground zero, and in my mind, Sony seems to have gotten over the most difficult parts. The rest requires dedicated execution like any other good businesses.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The problem is more with moderation, generally done with the help of the user community itself.

That's easy! Sony only need to produce a FAQ, and everyone will read it, and everyone will adhere to it, like good little community members!

 

[patsu]

Read my post again, I lumped moderation until "Ops".

However if you have a vibrant community... it can indeed simplify operations for the operator. e.g., getting multiple users to vote nuisances out of the game, getting good moderation from long time users, getting free help (to noobs) from experienced users, etc. etc.

 

[blakjedi]

Maybe PS3s that are connected but not being used will help power the service...

 

[patsu]

Unlikely though... except for Peer-to-Peer kind of services, Sony won't be able to guarantee quality of service by using users' PS3s.

Many of XBL's initial problems are also due to its "new-ness" (e.g., not so proven business model to entice XBLA developers initially). But once it's proven, Sony as a follower, may have an easier time to set it up.

The first mover advantage cuts both ways.

I think Microsoft knows that too, so we should be seeing their next moves soon.

 

[dukmahsik]

well we're supposed to link our ps3s together and become a super duper console more powerful than the human brain!