[PS3] LittleBigPlanet 2

The floaty jump has no bearing on a side-scrolling shooter, RTS, puzzle game, etc. Speaking of which, though I can see how the mechanics of these can be built, what about AI? A Puzzle-Quest game could be made, but the opponent would need some reasonable AI. I guess we'll need some serious Microchip creators to build some logic building blocks that'll piece together to set up behaviours. Of Sackbots could be set lose in a 'control room' avoiding and working towards goals inside, and their position set to trigger events in the game proper.
 
Some people have specifically said after playing that the floaty stuff is gone now, others have said it's still there. I'm thinking that the difference here is going to be if you've played an LBP1 level or an LBP2 level, but we'll see. What is definitely known though is that among the many parameters you can set is gravity, the power of your jump (or double jump) and adding one+one means that you can do a lot of tweaking on the jumping and physics behaviour in a level.
 
I don't think gravity and jump power are really the issue, and it's the inertia and reaction to moving platforms that's the problem. Still, platforming is going to be a minor activity now. The ability to pick up and carry objects, and move them between layers, is going to be pretty huge.
 
I hope someone is doing a Super Contra (or what it was called on the SNES) remake - this would be cool, to get some spread shot action!!

Do you guys know if it is possible to link several levels together to a whole game?

EDIT: just thought about it...so basically you could do a remake for all PSN and Xbox Live games!? For instance Braid, LBP style...the possible longvity of such a LB2 is breath taking!!
 
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Do you guys know if it is possible to link several levels together to a whole game?
Yes, you can travel from one level to another.
EDIT: just thought about it...so basically you could do a remake for all PSN and Xbox Live games!? For instance Braid, LBP style...the possible longvity of such a LB2 is breath taking!!
Indeed! although as I say, AI could be a throny issue. 8 bit remakes are a given as their AI was non-existent and you can duplicate that with motion patterns and track/avoid movement. Anything that pits you against a decision making computer opponent is going to be trickier though. I suppose path selection can be handled by spawning waypoints in antigravity.

Hmm, I really am starting to design now. I think I can achieve these mechanics for this favourite game on the Amiga. now's not the time, though!
 
To you guys remember the golden Amiga times, with all this aircraft/spaceship based shooters, here a list right out of my head:

Sidewinder....was phantastic audio visual game
Blood Money (one of the most difficult games I have ever played)
R-Type of course
Silkworm (still gives me a warm feeling in my heart with its unmatched unsymmetric coop gameplay)
Menace

let the dreaming start to begin!!

Sadly, most of the gamers nowadays are to young to know even those classics!! Still hope some old dogs make such remakes!!
 
You know, I actually find this disappointing. If someone created a new shooter, they are far less likely to get the coverage and attention of someone recreating an old IP and using the name. Many of the most popular levels in LBP that I saw were fan tributes to existing games or movies. In essence it's the same as the greater gaming world - sequelitus. People only have room for so many IPs in there lives. If you want to create a great game, put a Harry Potter or God of war or similar spin on it as that's what'll drive interest irrespective of your creation's intrinsic value.

eg. Case in point, create a top-down Gauntlet style game. Call it LittleBigGauntlet and you'll get intereset from guantlet gamers. Make it Harry Potter Dungeon Crawler and you'll get 10x the interest. Call it Baldur's Gate Sack Alliance and you'll get some ADnD fans taking a look. Call it Adventures in Zigogorath and you'll be overlooked with everyone taking a look at "Harry Potter blahblah" instead. Go on YouTube and see how many musicians getting hits for covers of game tunes and famous songs get the same amount of interest in original compositions. They don't.

So now I have to prepare myself for lots and lots of covers and clones on LBP2 content. Time to shelve all attempts at originality and just recycle LOTR movie content (at least, if one's after the popular vote :p) .
 
You know, I actually find this disappointing. If someone created a new shooter, they are far less likely to get the coverage and attention of someone recreating an old IP and using the name. Many of the most popular levels in LBP that I saw were fan tributes to existing games or movies. In essence it's the same as the greater gaming world - sequelitus. People only have room for so many IPs in there lives. If you want to create a great game, put a Harry Potter or God of war or similar spin on it as that's what'll drive interest irrespective of your creation's intrinsic value.

eg. Case in point, create a top-down Gauntlet style game. Call it LittleBigGauntlet and you'll get intereset from guantlet gamers. Make it Harry Potter Dungeon Crawler and you'll get 10x the interest. Call it Baldur's Gate Sack Alliance and you'll get some ADnD fans taking a look. Call it Adventures in Zigogorath and you'll be overlooked with everyone taking a look at "Harry Potter blahblah" instead. Go on YouTube and see how many musicians getting hits for covers of game tunes and famous songs get the same amount of interest in original compositions. They don't.

So now I have to prepare myself for lots and lots of covers and clones on LBP2 content. Time to shelve all attempts at originality and just recycle LOTR movie content (at least, if one's after the popular vote :p) .

The question is, if people really make a one to one replica...or if they build up an interpretation of the original, and this is where things are getting interesting I think. An interpretation of an original game could well turn out to be something unique at the end!!
And I think that in LBP, you typically get an interpretation...by the way, where can I download this Baldur's Gate Sack Alliance or do you plan a Sack of War as well :mrgreen:
 
The question is, if people really make a one to one replica...or if they build up an interpretation of the original, and this is where things are getting interesting I think. An interpretation of an original game could well turn out to be something unique at the end!!
Sure it'll be unique, in the same way GOW LBP levels and the like were. But it's disappointing that recycling IPs will prove more popular then creating your own.

Putting it another way, LBP2 is going to offer the possibilities of creating movies. How many original stories do you think we'll see becoming popular? I'm certain we'll see Star Wars and LOTR and the like recreated in LBP to much cheernig and celebration, while original artworks will get ignored simply because they are original.

If I want to create a vertical shooter, rather than coming up with my own vehicles and weapons, I could remodel SWIV and generate far more hits. At a push I could create an original shooter called Silkworm V and put in my own ideas, but I'd have to have a chopper and a tank to be Silkworm and pay due fan service. Anyone wanting to spend hours and hours on creating a side-scrolling shooter would get far more returns on their investment in terms of recognition if they clone the game mechanics of R-Type than if they create something of their own, even if what they create is every bit as good as R-Type (and TBH I think R-Type is as good as it gets regards shooters as the Power Sphere mechanic added an incredible tactical element to the gameplay that other more primitive shooters lack).
 
This is a typical issue for this kind of technology though - the fact that you CAN do a shooter is more significant than when this game was a shooter at the core, in which case making an original shooter would have been the focus. However, if it is really easy to do a shooter or a racing game, then an original version of one or one that makes good use of the LBP specific properties will emerge soon enough.

And that is of course apart from the issue that to create something from scratch you need a lot of different talents or a good small team of people who have the talents combined, and that's of course a lot more rare than the single creator who ... well ... doesn't possess all of these qualities. ;)

Nothing wrong with that - so far I feel that good content has surfaced pretty well in LBP. The new content publication features in LBP2 look like they'll definitely help make this even easier. I'll be able to subscribe to Jaeyden, say, and see on the web (iPhone?) what levels he's published and hearted, can queue these immediately, and then prompted to play them the next time I boot up LBP2. Great.

The GAF thread is showing more and more cool content.

I do agree though that LBP2 is so incredibly good from the perspective of people like you and me that it is hard to accept that it is even possible for the game to get the attention it deserves.

My feeling on this is that there are three parts to the game, and each of them has its own audience:

1. single player game. As a platformer, the game was highly original in a number of ways, and as such, slightly less accessible to people used to traditional platformers who expect very strict mechanics and direct control. Accessibility was further compounded by unpredictable controls as you've demonstrated and tricky use of the depth layers. Besides that, it is a platformer and when LBP was released, there weren't that many platforming fans. On the other side, the character customisation, online and offline (mixed and with own user profiles) multiplayer for up to four playerse with voice chat were neat features.

2. downloadable user levels. A great extension of LBP, this allows you to get new levels almost infinitely, and greatly enhances the single player game for those who venture online and willing to find new levels to play.

3. create your own levels. An amazing creation suite to make your own levels made available to people who want to build their own platformers.

How could this change for LBP2?

I don't think the success of 3 should be underestimated - there was a significant number of people making levels. There are millions of levels created, and most people can only have five of these online at the same time. With the vast improvements over this, I don't think we'll have to worry that enthusiasm for this aspect will decrease any time soon.

For 2, as a result partly of the improvements in creation, and partly because of the vastly improved online (lbp.me etc.) and in-game features for finding levels, I think there's big potential for this to become more successful as well.

For 1, the first single player campaign was the first stuff ever created with the engine. It's strength and weaknesses in terms of gameplay have since become clear from reactions to the single player game and the user levels. A few downloadable levels have been published since as well as the PSP version and have shown progressive improvement in playability. The audience is growing as well, with PS3 moving into a better price range and reaching beyond the more hardcore, as well as the whole Move push that at least in theory should bring some Wii owners to the PS3. The price of entry can likely stay low, or go low again soon after release as did LBP, partly thanks to the sales of DLC like the various outfits (though I presume some of that is also used to pay for servers/bandwidth). And of course the single player campaign can benefit from the new graphics and gameplay innovations as well.

I think the stars are pretty well aligned. Hopefully at the very least they'll be able to sell the game to existing LBP players - the biggest risk for me is probably that some people who own the original will think 'I already have an LBP, I don't need another one' ...
 
Nothing wrong with that - so far I feel that good content has surfaced pretty well in LBP.
Except, without viewing all the created contents, you cannot know. My moon level only got the 2000 or whatever it was plays it did because I was toid how to cheat the system to keep pushing it to the front. Not that I'm saying my level was worthy of anything! Only that, someone could have spent months creating the World's Best Level that everyone would adore, only it featured on the front page just long enough for 50 plays and wild acclaim before disappearing off the radar. I've dipped into LBP's online content on and off, and a lot of the rave stuff I have felt mediocre, and I've seen better content from far less popular creators. A lot of MM's hearted content is only a few hundred plays, a few thousand at best, whereas homages to alternative IPs often gained massive numbers of plays and lots of people celebrating the creator. that's not fair on the even better creators out there who weren't getting the recognition they deserved.

This is of course true of all and every creative industry. There's way more content out there than people can take in, so it gets distilled down to a few choices, notably whatever is popular, irrespective of whether that means it's any good or not. Anyone wanting to take creation 'seriously' should therefore create a few popular levels and created a name for themselves of the creations of others, before trying to go solo.

As for the new content finding tools, I doubt they'll be able to address the problem of lost gems. There may be someone who has a knack of finding the best levels, and being someone for others to turn to, just like film critics, but with millions of creations, they're not going to know everything available. I suppose in those cases it's for the creator to get out of creation and into publicising, using the external populations like forums and fansites. Even then, you see people posting, "check out my level," and maybe one or two people ever do.
 
To you guys remember the golden Amiga times, with all this aircraft/spaceship based shooters, here a list right out of my head:

Sidewinder....was phantastic audio visual game
Blood Money (one of the most difficult games I have ever played)
R-Type of course
Silkworm (still gives me a warm feeling in my heart with its unmatched unsymmetric coop gameplay)
Menace

let the dreaming start to begin!!

Sadly, most of the gamers nowadays are to young to know even those classics!! Still hope some old dogs make such remakes!!

Good shout - how about an Alien Breed clone?

This can't come soon enough!
 
Blood Money - will always have a special place in my heart. I remember that I bought it in Paris on holiday there with my father when I was 14 or so, 22 years ago now? (yikes!) I really loved it, and I finished it too - don't actually remember it as being that hard! (one of the probably less than 20 games I've ever finished - if we skip for a moment sierra adventure games)

However, I strongly doubt we'll be able to pull off even a semblance of those beautiful jellyfish ... Would be great though! Shame that I haven't managed to find a disc image for this anywhere online to play this on an Atari ST emulator. Perhaps there's one out there though for an Amiga emulator, never thought about that.

Speaking of Blood, though, or hard games for that matter! Simulating Captain Blood in LBP, now that would be an achievement! ;) Crazy game.

I played SWIV more than Silkworm, though ultimately I didn't enjoy them as much.

Also, I thought Xenon 2 was one of the most beautiful games out there, but also very tough - Blood Money had better pacing. I also really liked Blood Money's two player mode, which I played extensively with my younger sister.

Alien Breed - hmm, I think I like Gauntlett 2 better in the end. More variation. But it could be interesting - I'm not quite happy with the recently released Alien Breed remake. While I'm not sure LBP2's engine would be better than Unreal Engine for the job, who knows? ;)

@Shifty: I wasn't saying it was perfect for LBP, just that it wasn't terrible either, imho. LBP2 certainly looks like it could easily do better though, with a capacity to basically find an existing website dedicated to knitting, and then automatically having like-mided people publish new knitting themed levels on that site, so to speak.
 
Only if creators are allowed to scale back the over done physics...then I agree that it is possible to get better controlls!

I'm not sure I follow how physics can be 'over done'..

If what you're asking is if you can tweak things to change them, then yes. Gravity will give you control of weight, and the Controlinator will allow you to tweak many control mechanics. I still don't think there is a problem with any of the platforming in LBP. Even in Shifty's level he basically created scenarios where it was a problem (scenarios which essentially do not exist in nearly every great level created, including the standard levels).
 
While I love all these old Amiga games I'm kinda with Shifty on that one.I mean the effort that clearly went into some of the user created levels is certainly commendable, but I would have preferred some well designed platforming levels like MM did for the single player mode instead. A calculator, a piece of music, an elaborate "hold R to start rollercoaster" or a tribute to Super Mario Bros level might all be an impressive proof of concept, but ultimately I don't really give a shit since the vastly superior originals are readily available.

Besides, the greatness of all the classics is usually directly correlated to their smooth 60 fps framerate and the spot-on responsive controls. A floaty Contra? Nah, I think I'd rather pass.
 
While I love all these old Amiga games I'm kinda with Shifty on that one.I mean the effort that clearly went into some of the user created levels is certainly commendable, but I would have preferred some well designed platforming levels like MM did for the single player mode instead. A calculator, a piece of music, an elaborate "hold R to start rollercoaster" or a tribute to Super Mario Bros level might all be an impressive proof of concept, but ultimately I don't really give a shit since the vastly superior originals are readily available.

Besides, the greatness of all the classics is usually directly correlated to their smooth 60 fps framerate and the spot-on responsive controls. A floaty Contra? Nah, I think I'd rather pass.

I think you're being a bit harsh, many people are paying tribute to their favourite games and can actually utilise the tools to make a half-decent level - for example, 2 of my levels are based on old 8bit games - or are at least inspired.

The thing with LBP2 is that you can tweek stuff even more, so now any type of game can be made rather than 'fudging' something.

Using games for inspiration isn't such a bad thing, it helps people who lack the creative side get a start.
 
please explain, I pimped my level to hell and sold my soul and have less than 200 plays for 50 hours love :(

I think all you had to do was publish to the same level back over the old one. That would put it back on the front page.

A better system for reward good levels or searching for might be needed for LBP2. Although it'll probably always be limited by people being draw to big names. Hopefully they won't repeat the same mistake they made with LBP1, by giving trophies for a number of hearts. Leading to all that hearts 4 hearts business.
 
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