[PS3] LittleBigPlanet 2
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Billy Idol
Legend
The devs could give us a "how much is physics exaggerated"-button, where I can decide if I want the platforms super reactive (as it is in LBP) or less reactive...I just remember that all of the gameplay would not be a problem, if they would allow more respawns...maybe infinity respawn
The devs could give us a "how much is physics exaggerated"-button, where I can decide if I want the platforms super reactive (as it is in LBP) or less reactive...I just remember that all of the gameplay would not be a problem, if they would allow more respawns...maybe infinity respawn
wouldn't that be the gravity slider? the more gravity the less the objects move.
oh, and we already have infinite respawns!
WRT to the controls, I think it's what identifies the game and singles it out from being YAP (Yet Another Platformer) - interestingly they say they have tweaked his controls so maybe it will make him a little easier to control.
No offense, but that seems to be your view in every game, and it's a very broad and...Budhist view I guess. If people stop wanting things how they want them, and accept everything as it is, they'll find peace and appreciate everything more. In a way that's true, but that means no criticisms of anything ever.
19 out of 20 people (my own made up figure) are not made happy by the jump mechanics in LBP. Yes, 19 out of 20 people could induce personality reprogamming and decide they will like it regardless, or instead, if MM want to actually make people happy with their games, they could tailor them to the tastes of their audience. I personally don't want to have to go through hours of training to accept the fact that when I jump, I might jump high and I might go nowhere. A game that asks that of me is asking too much.
People seem to be of the opinion that either you have LBP's physics, or you have a dry, direct control game like Mario. There is a middle ground. Plenty of 16 bit platformers had the player able to control their direction in mid air. The two issues I see are :
1) Jumps are inconsistent
2) Level design requires counter-motions in jumps, which is a fairly high level gaming skill
It is quite possible to have LBP with LBP's physics and mid-air correction, but with a more dependable jump height, and a range of levels so those who like a challenge have to counter inertia to land on a pinpoint moving platform, while those who are lacking deft platforming skills don't get punished for it.
I'll cite a classic example from LBP - in the Cowboy world, entering from the Dead Wedding world, there's a jump onto a swinging tower of rocks above a pit of spikes. I am an experienced platform gamer from the 80s and 90s, and this spot could kill time and time again playing multiplayer. You'd go to jump but just slide off because of the tower movement, but the movements are so subtle you can't predict what the outcome will be. It's good for a laugh, but in more demanding places it's just frustrating. And that the opinion of more LBP players than not going by what gets read online. Again, MM apologised for the Ring of Death level, so they have clearly heard the frustrations people have had. And everyone I have played with multiplayer has shown frustration with the game's controls, including myself.
It'd be a folly to ignore that when there's the chance to improve upon it with the next iteration. Next iterations are supposed to refine the recipe to make an even better, more appealing product.
upnorthsox
Veteran
The devs could give us a "how much is physics exaggerated"-button, where I can decide if I want the platforms super reactive (as it is in LBP) or less reactive...I just remember that all of the gameplay would not be a problem, if they would allow more respawns...maybe infinity respawn
Well there's the crux of the matter really, it's not the floaty controls which can have benefits, or the movable platforms. It's that you have the same amount of lives for a difficult section as you do for an easy one. The answer is simple though, make lives and/or life multipliers collectable. The wheel of death wouldn't have been such a killer had I been able to double up my lives before hand, and on the creative end it makes a simple way to add a difficulty level to your created level by having the same level but no extra lives.
There's an infinite respawn point in LBP now, but that doesn't solve the issue. An infinite number of attmptes at an infinitely impossible set of platforming challenges just means a waste fo time. TBH 3 lives is probably all you need, because good level design for the masses should be solvable in a few attempts. It's only hardcore gamers who'll try over and over again; everyone else will quit and go do something else they find more fun instead.
Billy Idol
Legend
Hm, I don't think that this is related to gravity? Maybe the how the momentum impacts certain objects and how much time it needs till its movement slows down. Maybe you are right with gravity. But I found occasions, where some platforms don't even get back to their initial position, which I found curious. If the physics are right, platforms and object should satisfy a minimum energy statement when they rest?!
Huh, we have infinity respawns? The last time I played the game (seems to be a long time ago) we have at each door about 4 respwans...it did not increase when we played together, making it even more difficult!
This would be a great idea, so that I can save up the respawns to the difficult section!
I don't think there's anything wrong with my POV here. If I play Burnout Paradise all the time and use it as my "standard" for racers, I can't exactly expect GT5 to control and feel like BOP, can I? Or does that now make GT5 a poor game with poor controls?
The same applies to LittleBigPlanet. It's not Mario (BOP). It's more GT5 (physics based).
The jumps aren't at all inconsistent unless you're jumping off of a platform that has the ability to move up and down. I never feel like I'm hampered by the jump mechanics unless I'm playing a poorly designed level. And that's what it all comes down to in LBP (like any other platformer). Level Design.
I just find that people are using the physics based platforming as a scape goat because they don't want to learn (all 30 minutes of learning) how to play the game. They instantly think it's throw away since it is not Mario, and that is most certainly the truth in each and every circumstance.
As for achieving a middle ground, I find it's not often a wise choice to change anything that drastic in your next game. See Resistance 2 for example. You may find a new user base, but you'll likely lose your old user base (as well as all of the older content, etc).
Keeping this 100% physics based is the right answer.
Thing is, that's exactly what they are achieving. They keep everything 100% physics based and compatible with the millions of old levels, but at the same time you have additional options to modify the parameters for the physics to a huge extent. This has a huge range of advantages. Among them, it means that if you want to make a Mario style downloadable level, or a Mega Man style downloadable level, or just about any other type of platformer, you can now probably do that which I think is hugely exciting. But if you want to take it in the other direction and make the controls floaty or maybe even do stuff like in the newer Marios with up-side-down physics and so on, that's very cool too.
Obviously, it's even more significant in combination with the new top-down camera options and the direct vehicle controls, because it helps with even more game types.
They're just increasing the palette, and particularly for a second iteration and even more so for , that's generally a good thing. In my opinion, a successful single player campaign could start out with Mario style controls and then subtly move towards LBP 1 type controls as the game progresses. Considering that most gamers come from traditional platformers and almost everyone has played those, that can be a very useful approach. You could even link it to an optional tutorial level that asks what kind of platforming experience you have.
Which is a fundamental part of the platformer! And side-to-side wobbles affect jumping. And most importantly downwards motion on a slope affect jumping, that walking to the edge of a curved platform, jumping loses you some height.
It wouldn't be a drastic change like Uncharted to Uncharted 2. That was a game overhaul. What's being proposed here is the same height jump from a platform when you push the jump button.
It would be physics based, only bending physics to produce a game easier for most folk to play. No different to being able to change direction in mid air. No different to offering driving aids in racers, allowing those who haven't got 733t driving skillz to still be able to enjot the game.
My problem is less that the jumping is floaty, and more that I find them at times unresponsive. It's been a while since I played, so I can't provide exact details of levels etc. What I remember is that I seemed to be able to jump fairly high off of a flat surface. Once I had to jump off an incline, it seemed to be extremely difficult to predict how high I would jump, which meant I wouldn't know where to start my jump. I think my feeling of unresponsiveness was coming from the lack of elevation in the jump. If you don't jump high enough, you can't take advantage of the floating to correct yourself. Now if you make that incline move back and forth by several degrees, like you'd have on an unstable platform, and jumping could become a pain.
I'm not asking for the game to be a Mario clone.
I'm not asking for the game to be a Mario clone.
I'll see about making a demo level to showcase LBPs jumping as a point of reference.
The devs could give us a "how much is physics exaggerated"-button, where I can decide if I want the platforms super reactive (as it is in LBP) or less reactive...I just remember that all of the gameplay would not be a problem, if they would allow more respawns...maybe infinity respawn
Is the physics exaggerated ? What is the point of reference ? I thought the physics is okay.
I reckon this is related to the gravity, which will be adjustable by level creators in LBP2.
I believe Shifty is complaining about a third thing, none of the above.
Let me know when you go at it - could be a good opportunity to test co-creation.
Okay, though chances are I'll find 15 minutes in an afternoon. It won't be anything exciting!
"B3D Jump test" level uploaded. After messing about a bit, this simple level seemed okay for showing the inconsistencies and problems with floatiness. Basically jump all the way to the end, flick the lever and jump back. Jumping on the bumps shows height is inconsistent. It varies a little, but occassionally Sackboy can jump 50% higher or only half a full jump. 50% higher than a full jump is a bug IMO. And the final jumps are easy when you know the mechanics, but for a typical player racing against the clock, the fact some jumps won't even register because Sackboy's feet never hit the ground, is confusing and annoying. I changed the ground from fire to lightning to be even more punishing! That and the long walk adds to the stress and thus increases likelihood of making mistakes.
No, I created a level to show how players can encounter odd and unexpected behaviours, and have to wrestle with the physics.
You can search by the level name Shifty posted or by Shifty's PSN name, or if Shifty's in your friends list through your friends in LBP. Should be easy to find. I'll have a look tonight myself.
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