[PS3] Killzone 3

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So, I assume KZ3 should be kept away from comparisons to other games as well, since it hasn't been released either?
Yet, we've seen WAY more of KZ3 than Crysis 2 on consoles. KZ3 is fine to talk about, but not the things you are saying about Crysis 2.

More ambiguous statements. What makes the particles and guns in KZ3 "a generation above Crysis 2's"? How many characters does it show on screen, Crysis 2 shows many as well (like in the E3 videos), light sources, well, every plasma shot is a light source in Crysis 2 (and I'm not talking about the muzzleflashes, add that as well), and like I said, 100% realtime lighting and shadowing with GI and HDR (now that's a gen ahead xD). As to weather effects, yeah, that's yet to be seen.
I'm following your ambigous statements. I guess you can fire them off, but can't take them directed right back at you. Particle effects can completely bathe the screen in KZ2 and more so in KZ3. Every plasma shot may be a light source in C2, but it's still not even ballpark to the dynamic light sources on screen at once in KZ2. I'll give you the HDR lighting. On one of the Crysis 2 GIFs, the running alien has no shadow.

Even if it didn't match KZ2/3, it's certainly close. Claiming that no game even approaches them reeks of fanboyism. It's like trolling every other game out there.
No. What reeks of fanboyism is someone popping up, when praise of certain games come up, with as much anti-hype as possible. Then, that same person to praise other lesser titles with as much hype as he/she can muster.

As a technical package, I haven't seen a console game, outside of Sony's studios; match KZ2 yet.
 
Yet, we've seen WAY more of KZ3 than Crysis 2 on consoles. KZ3 is fine to talk about, but not the things you are saying about Crysis 2.
I understand. We can only compare when it results favorably for PS3 exclusives :LOL:

Particle effects can completely bathe the screen in KZ2 and more so in KZ3.
Let's not foget they're all low res too :)

Every plasma shot may be a light source in C2, but it's still not even ballpark to the dynamic light sources on screen at once in KZ2.
I assumed you've counted them?

I'll give you the HDR lighting. On one of the Crysis 2 GIFs, the running alien has no shadow.
Which one? In any case, like I said before, all lighting/shadows are realtime in C2, unlike KZ2/3's. And I see you conveniently ignored the GI as well.

No. What reeks of fanboyism is someone popping up, when praise of certain games come up, with as much anti-hype as possible. Then, that same person to praise other lesser titles with as much hype as he/she can muster.

As a technical package, I haven't seen a console game, outside of Sony's studios; match KZ2 yet.
Praising is something like "Oh it looks really good", while fanboyism is something like "this looks a gen ahead of everything else out there". Like I said, it's trolling non-Sony exclusive games.
 
someone popping up, when praise of certain games come up, with as much anti-hype as possible..

You can see the same persons doing it in many PS3 exclusives threads. Always about graphics, always negatve :???:

Which one? In any case, like I said before, all lighting/shadows are realtime in C2, unlike KZ2/3's. And I see you conveniently ignored the GI as we

Muzlle flash cast real time shadows in KZ2 (flashlight in shotgun too), there are many shadow casting lights and of course standard sun shadows. And how is lighting not real time?
 
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You can see the same persons doing it in many PS3 exclusives threads. Always about graphics, always negatve :???:

Just remember that especially on a forum like B3D making hyperbole statements will make others do a reseach and analyse technical merits and visual merits. Nobody can claim to be the strongest man by words alone and no evidence. Sadly it generally is PS3 threads that are full of hyperbole and users endlessly claiming anything to be the best or superior or whatever. Heck just look at B3D history and all of the threads and bans generated by lunatics, it's like they worship the piece of electronic.

Anwyay this goes wildly OT but this B3D, analyzing FTW. :p
 
Why? Just because they can add it doesn't mean they want to. Doesn't fit with the story either. Halving the screen vertically works in KZ since most of the encounters are in corridors (with great vistas, but corridors) so having a tunnel vision is not so bad. C2 deals with more open areas so it's not a good option.

What story ? Have you played C2 already ? If they want split screen in the feature set, they will adapt the story to do so.
You can also split horizontally or vertically. My wife and I played Halo 1 and 2 split screen co-op. It's a commonly requested feature.

For some things yeah, but then again we don't know exactly what sacrifices other than resolution have been made to accomodate splitscreen. Perhaps a more aggresive LOD system.

The developers will do whatever necessary to complete the features. Like Crysis uses the less expensive 3D techniques for 3DTV. ^_^
 
You can see the same persons doing it in many PS3 exclusives threads. Always about graphics, always negatve :???:
You are obviously not talking about me, since I criticize non sony exclusives too, just look at Crysis 2's thread xD

Just remember that especially on a forum like B3D making hyperbole statements will make others do a reseach and analyse technical merits and visual merits. Nobody can claim to be the strongest man by words alone and no evidence. Sadly it generally is PS3 threads that are full of hyperbole and users endlessly claiming anything to be the best or superior or whatever. Heck just look at B3D history and all of the threads and bans generated by lunatics, it's like they worship the piece of electronic.

Anwyay this goes wildly OT but this B3D, analyzing FTW. :p
Exactly.

Muzlle flash cast real time shadows in KZ2 (flashlight in shotgun too), there are many shadow casting lights and of course standard sun shadows.
Yes, but they were limited as to how many shadow casting muzzleflash lights you could see at any one time, if there were many guns firing close to the player only some casted shadows.

And how is lighting not real time?
Shading occurs in realtime, but the lighting calculations are precomputed and stored in lightmaps (Beast). You can't have a day-night transition with this method, for example.

What story ? Have you played C2 already ?
We know enough to know that the protagonist goes solo (in regards to nanosuit users) most of the game.

If they want split screen in the feature set, they will adapt the story to do so.
You can also split horizontally or vertically. My wife and I played Halo 1 and 2 split screen co-op. It's a commonly requested feature.

The developers will do whatever necessary to complete the features. Like Crysis uses the less expensive 3D techniques for 3DTV. ^_^
As you said, IF they wanted :p
 
Yes, but they were limited as to how many shadow casting muzzleflash lights you could see at any one time, if there were many guns firing close to the player only some casted shadows.

Number is limited but it's all real time. And Crysis 2 is not limited? You think that console version will have ~100 shadow casting light sources per frame? :smile:

Shading occurs in realtime, but the lighting calculations are precomputed and stored in lightmaps (Beast). You can't have a day-night transition with this method, for example.

I still don't know why they're using RT GI in linear FPS game.
 
Just remember that especially on a forum like B3D making hyperbole statements will make others do a reseach and analyse technical merits and visual merits. Nobody can claim to be the strongest man by words alone and no evidence. Sadly it generally is PS3 threads that are full of hyperbole and users endlessly claiming anything to be the best or superior or whatever. Heck just look at B3D history and all of the threads and bans generated by lunatics, it's like they worship the piece of electronic.

If they believe they saw "the best" graphics, then powers to them. I remember you were/are pretty hot on Crysis 2 too.

Are you going to send flame mail to the VGA awards panel since they gave Best Graphics award to God of War 3 this year, Uncharted 2 last year, and MGS4 the year before ? All PS3 exclusives.
 
I understand. We can only compare when it results favorably for PS3 exclusives :LOL:
I see you've completely ignored the reason C2 can't be talked about in the same context as KZ3. Again, no one can see what you are seeing in C2 for consoles. This is because there is no real (direct feed or otherwise) console footage for PS3. This is not the case for KZ3. Don't act as though it doesn't make perfect sense.

Let's not foget they're all low res too :)
Let's not forget they're still there...in any form. And, it looks good!

I assumed you've counted them?
No, but they have been counted. It was on a dev video showing the level where the bullet train stopped (the level with the lightning gun). There were over 350 dynamic lights. ;) Feel free to completely ignore this.

Which one? In any case, like I said before, all lighting/shadows are realtime in C2, unlike KZ2/3's. And I see you conveniently ignored the GI as well.
The first one from one of Nightshade's latter posts. The alien was running from gunfire in the GI'ed environment. :) I'm not surprised you missed it. :LOL:

Praising is something like "Oh it looks really good", while fanboyism is something like "this looks a gen ahead of everything else out there". Like I said, it's trolling non-Sony exclusive games.
I would say praise is something like "KZ2 has tons of particle effects", while fanboyism is something like, "it doesn't count because it's low rez". How about trolling with "it's negative mipmap bias" while being completely wrong? Then, this same person praises the sorry looking water in the last Crysis 2 trailer. How obvious is that? Then, there is the "I've seen better fire sprites last gen" with video showing worse fire (in a cutscene at that). :LOL:
 
How about trolling with "it's negative mipmap bias" while being completely wrong? Then, this same person praises the sorry looking water in the last Crysis 2 trailer. How obvious is that? :LOL:

You really seem to be in some war or something and completly blinded by some kind of loyality or fanboyism. Your going amok by lying and grossly taking out of context what I've said.

Let me clarify the points you are taking to say I am a troll and also the Crysis 2 water part. Hard proof always win and this will be enough since this is way OT and ridicolous at this point.


I think it's official, I dont like MLAA? Those screens look weird..

I think they look grainy "weird" due to them disabling/negative bias mipmapping to make it look more detailed ignoring any AF if used, atleast in these stills. Doubt they would have it off for play as it affects perfomance when mips are skipped using higher LOD textures for distant surfaces. Anyway has the mipmap bias -1.5 to -2 look. Cant be nice in motion with such aliasing...

Nobody biases mipmaps .it breaks the cache.It's safer to do sharpen PP, ...Or nearest neightbour downsampling the hirez captures.


Saw this trailer called "Be the weapon". Shows gameplay fro mseveral new places in singleplayer and seems to be console footage.

lOyD7SoY7LU&hd=1

Also at the ending there is OMG fluid dynamic water mass with physics pulling objects on the road when water mass moves ahead. Somebody resurrect that lunatic that was all over simple/shitty water effects in lastgen and this gen games. /sarcasm :LOL:

Nice, probably scripted sequence there.

Honestly speaking that water part at the end looked bad, doesn't matters if its using fluid dynamics or using it at a large scale.

Nothing ground breaking but a nice addition. Mesh doesn't seem to have much geometry and splash effects are not complex dense particle emitters. However sequence in motion is nice or lets say does it's work and since it is on consoles.

See there? ;)
 
As I said ?
As you said:

"If they want split screen in the feature set, "

They can't, with the current feature set.
And you know this, how exactly?

Number is limited but it's all real time. And Crysis 2 is not limited? You think that console version will have ~100 shadow casting light sources per frame? :smile:
Not really, but all shadows will be realtime, instead of precalculated :)

I still don't know why they're using RT GI in linear FPS game.
In Crysis, the in-game time passed while you played. Maybe it's the same in C2.

I see you've completely ignored the reason C2 can't be talked about in the same context as KZ3. Again, no one can see what you are seeing in C2 for consoles. This is because there is no real (direct feed or otherwise) console footage for PS3. This is not the case for KZ3. Don't act as though it doesn't make perfect sense.
There is direct feed footage of the 360 version, a console.

Let's not forget they're still there...in any form. And, it looks good!
So are C2's.

No, but they have been counted. It was on a dev video showing the level where the bullet train stopped (the level with the lightning gun). There were over 350 dynamic lights. ;) Feel free to completely ignore this.
Yes, throughout the level. I remember the video interview where they showed that. The moment they activated all the lights in the level the framerate went to hell. But I meant also if you counted Crysis 2's. You claim that KZ3 has more, so obviously you have numbers.

The first one from one of Nightshade's latter posts. The alien was running from gunfire in the GI'ed environment. :) I'm not surprised you missed it.
It was in dragonelite's post. And the alien does have a shadow. This is what happens when you use GIFs as proof instead of direct feed footage :LOL:


I would say praise is something like "KZ2 has tons of particle effects", while fanboyism is something like, "it doesn't count because it's low rez".
I never said they didn't count. Just placed them in context.

How about trolling with "it's negative mipmap bias" while being completely wrong? Then, this same person praises the sorry looking water in the last Crysis 2 trailer. How obvious is that?
You'll have to address the person who claimed that, not me.

Then, there is the "I've seen better fire sprites last gen" with video showing worse fire (in a cutscene at that). :LOL:
You seem to assume that since a game is in a newer hardware it automatically is better. But the thing about the sprites is that they're art dependant, not hardware dependent. Sorry if it hurt your feelings that Capcom has better fire sprites since last gen than ND.

----

Bottom line is, hyperbolic comments will only attract backlash. You can't expect everyone to be a willing participant of ciclejerking.

And that's about it. I'm not indulging fanboy claims anymore.
 
As you said:

"If they want split screen in the feature set, "

And you know this, how exactly?

Because split screen in the worst case use up twice the rendering resources (2 players in 2 different locations firing at different enemies). If Crysis 2 can support split screen without any compromise to the current feature sets, it would mean that there are significant (at best 50% of) untapped resources right now, which would not make sense. As great developers, they would have used the (unused) resources to upgrade their current features more.
 
What prevents GG from featuring online splitscreen for competitive MP if splitscreen is in the campaign? Also any speculation on why there are no plans for online co-op? I assumed since Sony was pushing 3D that this would potentially pave the way for more games covering essentially all the bases like Halo does as far as playing with friends is concerned.
 
Halving the screen vertically works in KZ since most of the encounters are in corridors (with great vistas, but corridors) so having a tunnel vision is not so bad. C2 deals with more open areas so it's not a good option.

Are you ignoring the option to have a horizontally split screen because it would negate your argument?
 
I know this is going to be erased because it's a comparison but what the hell.

I'd say Crysis 2 is a good contender. Lighting is far beyond KZ2 and KZ3. Not only does C2 also have a deferred renderer, every single light and shadow is calculated in realtime, unlike KZ2/3 environment lightmaps. It has both HDR (with eye adaptation) and one bounce GI. Lens flares actually depend on the brightness of lights and reflections, whereas KZ2/3's are handplaced. Materials seem more complex too, metal actually looks like metal xD. It also has procedural destruction, metal deformation, etc...

Anyways, saying that "no game from a developer outside of Sony's studios has even been able to approach KZ2, yet" is quite silly.


Nope. Look at patsu's picture. The right side of the face looks quite blocky, you can even count the polygons. Shader wise it's like a gen apart. Not to mention all the postprocessing effects that help the overall image, whereas Uncharted games use very little.

Crysis 2 footage at least from what I've seen sacrifices a lot of things to achieve that single bounce GI and HDR. It's got poor framerate, massive tearing, pop ins, jaggies, strong LOD for DOF, tons of blurry textures, low poly character models, scripted destruction, low precision lighting, none colliding particles, small scale and noticeably less particle compared to killzone 3. KZ3's metal shader is actually the best looking by far, the ISA rifle makes any other AR looks laughable. The lighting and shadowing solution in Crysis 2 is all dynamic I give you that but Killzone 2&3 have more dynamic lights on screen and more shadow casting. Does C2 have OMB yet on consoles?
 
Crysis 2 footage at least from what I've seen sacrifices a lot of things to achieve that single bounce GI and HDR. It's got poor framerate, massive tearing, pop ins, jaggies, strong LOD for DOF, tons of blurry textures, low poly character models, scripted destruction, low precision lighting, none colliding particles, small scale and noticeably less particle compared to killzone 3. KZ3's metal shader is actually the best looking by far, the ISA rifle makes any other AR looks laughable. The lighting and shadowing solution in Crysis 2 is all dynamic I give you that but Killzone 2&3 have more dynamic lights on screen and more shadow casting. Does C2 have OMB yet on consoles?

This.
 
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