[PS3] Killzone 3

[Billy Idol]

Why not offer two types of controls? KZ3 could be a showcase title for 3D on PS3 so I think it's in Sony's best interest to make the game as accessible to as many people as possible. Just keep the old controls and call it classic or something.

Yeah good idea!
But how do you handle MP gameplay if some of the control schemes offers an advantage?

 

[Billy Idol]

Check this out, could this be the jungle of phosphoric light? Looks stunning from the artwork.
credit to solidsnakex from neogaf.

I just read my gaming mag with an interview of a GG dev.

They indeed said that they where quiet suprised when they saw the jungle in Avatar...as the got reminded about their jungle setting! He clearly states that they worked on this level long before Avatar hit cinemas

 

[Billy Idol]

If they want to go for cinematic realism, yes, but if they want to go for real realism, then the ragdoll animation is actually probably close to reality than anything you see in KZ2 or KZ3...

If you deal a killing blow to someone(headshot in particular), when they fall, they are limp and they aren't going to be graceful about it(because they are dead). The ragdoll animation is actually a fairly accurate representation of that.

I guess if you wanted to do mortally wounding blows where you watch the enemy slowly bleed out on the ground, still slowly moving around, probably crying or moaning in pain or something, until they finally go still, then yes, you could do something like in KZ3. But to do it as the actual "death" animation is actually further from reality.

However, in general, the animation needs to improve. But improve it too much and it just gets creepy(as I am sure you can tell from the above).

Yeah, you are right! But this is exactly what I love so much!! This over dramatic cinema realism!! A dev answered that they are working on this overdramatic turn around death animations and maybe include some variations...

 

[patsu]

They indeed said that they where quiet suprised when they saw the jungle in Avatar...as the got reminded about their jungle setting! He clearly states that they worked on this level long before Avatar hit cinemas

It's a pleasant surprise to see the concept arts. Can't wait to see their jungle level for real.

Given the verticality in KZ2, I'd love to see verticality in the KZ3 jungle too. Something like Avatar's or Ewok's high elevation setting would be amazing.

They should also make a dynamic theme out of the jungle level !

Yeah, you are right! But this is exactly what I love so much!! This over dramatic cinema realism!! A dev answered that they are working on this overdramatic turn around death animations and maybe include some variations...

Yes, the Helghast soldiers are heavily padded, so I can imagine them taking more elaborate evasive actions before death.

 

[patsu]

This one is nice too:

EDIT:
The (female) Elite Shock Trooper looks more tame in design:

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Wow ! Where r u guys getting these artwork images from?
BTW, just saw the first gameplay video at Gamersyde. The images had me worried as KZ3 didn't seem to have the same atmosphere as KZ2, but the video is looking great as the gameplay seems faster than before. I am hoping GG will get the same feel of atmosphere before the game ships though.

 

[patsu]

Found it on GAF:

 

[patsu]

The images had me worried as KZ3 didn't seem to have the same atmosphere as KZ2, but the video is looking great as the gameplay seems faster than before. I am hoping GG will get the same feel of atmosphere before the game ships though.

Yes, I prefer the softer KZ2 look also.

But right now, I'm not too concern. I suspect by the time KZ3 releases, people will have higher expectation of FPS. They will want to see something different or "new". The different look may not bother them that much (stereoscopic 3D aside).

Judging from the current demo, they have some sort of QTE-based melee ? It may get old by then (due to advances in motion gaming). I'd love to see them expand on the concept to include more engaging close quarter combat.

At the meta-game level, KZ2's tactician role introduced user spawn capability. At the other extreme, MAG's elaborate battlefield setup offers a lot of scope for objective games. I think there're many opportunities for Guerilla Game to innovate here too.

 

[Bigduo209]

At first I didn't know why I wasn't feeling Killzone as a franchise, and then finally hit me, the games don't have any bigger sense of creativity or imagination behind it. Now I'm not saying it's bad, because I do like the Helgeist and the worlds/setting created, but there's nothing that hooks me to say "I gotta play this game".

Maybe it's the weapons, the protagonists, or maybe it's something else contributing to why I'm not hooked. I like Resistance, Bioshock, Infamous, Ratchet and Clank, Uncharted, and Gears of War when it comes to shooters, and even though I don't too much for Halo at least there's something about it I like (well more than Call of Duty).

I'm not trying to insult the Killzone games, but I was hoping that after seeing what Killzone 3 looks like I might find that spark that peaks my interests.

I guess what I'm getting at is why are you guys interested in Killzone, and makes it stand-out compared to a lot of other shooters? And if anyone here is like me then what would the games have to improve to make it more appealing towards you?

 

[djskribbles]

I've never played KZ1, but what I like about KZ2, is the graphics, cover system, animations, AI and ragdoll physics. The story and gameplay weren't anything special (IMHO) and I wasn't a fan of the controls. I'm not much of an online gamer so I didn't even try it. But overall, I still liked KZ2 quite a bit. Not the best shooter I've played, but it's easily in my top 5.

 

[patsu]

...

Yes, I get what you're saying. From certain perspective, the SP game plays like a regular shooter with great AI + "infinite" enemy spawns. The partially destructible covers didn't change the gameplay much.

Most of the innovations are in the MP game: The "vertical" MP maps and the too-powerful soldier classes gave the game its character. Then again, the MP mode lacks critical party features.


KZ3 could use some defining mechanics (e.g., RFOM has weapon wheel, Bioshock has Plasmid, MAG has elaborate battlefield setup). The Tactician's spawn grenade doesn't quite define a new experience on its own. I will welcome some work here but that is not to say KZ2 doesn't stand out.

I like KZ2 for a while because fighting in their MP maps feel very immersive to me due to the production quality and post processing. e.g., Fighting in KZ2 rain feels like fighting in real rain. I also like their labyrinth-like maps. The gunplay feel solid and weighty too.

I think the first thing they should revisit are the narrow field of vision and the controls. The other features (e.g., soldier classes) will fall in place with more play testing.

On a personal level, AI melee is where I hope to see KZ3 excel. I love the KZ2 AI enemies, and would like more ways to play against them. If not melee, give me something else to interact with them. They should also add AI bots to MP. The set pieces are nice but they can feel static after a while. Your mileage will vary.

EDIT: IMHO, it's a waste of resources *if* the Helghast soldiers look great but can't fight. ^_^

 

[Billy Idol]

At first I didn't know why I wasn't feeling Killzone as a franchise, and then finally hit me, the games don't have any bigger sense of creativity or imagination behind it. Now I'm not saying it's bad, because I do like the Helgeist and the worlds/setting created, but there's nothing that hooks me to say "I gotta play this game".

Maybe it's the weapons, the protagonists, or maybe it's something else contributing to why I'm not hooked. I like Resistance, Bioshock, Infamous, Ratchet and Clank, Uncharted, and Gears of War when it comes to shooters, and even though I don't too much for Halo at least there's something about it I like (well more than Call of Duty).

I'm not trying to insult the Killzone games, but I was hoping that after seeing what Killzone 3 looks like I might find that spark that peaks my interests.

I guess what I'm getting at is why are you guys interested in Killzone, and makes it stand-out compared to a lot of other shooters? And if anyone here is like me then what would the games have to improve to make it more appealing towards you?

Which FPS do you like more than KZ?

 

[Bigduo209]

Which FPS do you like more than KZ?

Like I said it's not one particular game or necessarily a shooter from the first-person perspective, I'm just saying that there's other shooters with some interesting mechanics/options that make them standout on their own.

They may not have MP, they may not be the most popular shooters ever, but I know that those games have something about them that (in a good way) makes them stick out like sore thumbs. Killzone has it's antagonists, it's setting, and it's graphics, but what is it about it's gameplay that gives it it's sense of 'Wow'? What draws it's fanatics to the game?

Oh and I appreciate the input, I was just curious about everyone's point-of-view on the series, so I'm really glad for the current feedback.

 

[rabidrabbit]

I love the KZ3 design, it has a Metal Gear Solid vibe. The jetpack looks like straigth from some MGS game!

 

[nightshade]

Yes, I get what you're saying. From certain perspective, the SP game plays like a regular shooter with great AI + "infinite" enemy spawns. The partially destructible covers didn't change the gameplay much.

There weren't many areas in KZ2 with infinite respawn, for the moment I can remember only three areas.

1) The first section of Salamun Bridge, where you have to go halfway so that the helghast start raising the bridge.

2) The Train level where the Helghasts will keep coming unless you destroy the tank.

3) The entrance to Imperial Palace...the respawn time here is fairly long but they do respawn.

 

[patsu]

Yes, I did notice it's not everywhere. But some gamers may hold on to the concept and brand KZ3 as an infinite spawn FPS. That's why I qualify my statement with "From certain perspective". These levels typically caused player griefs, especially when the players forgot that the covers can be destroyed to reveal the enemies.

I like KZ2. Everytime I think of FPS, I remember KZ2 first (and fondly). But KZ3 needs to beat it. I play MAG and RFOM more, but for some reason, I always remember KZ2 first. Don't know why.

EDIT: In a very real sense, the only way to end this sentence, "RFOM has weapon wheel, Bioshock has Plasmid, MAG has elaborate battlefield setup" is...

Spoiler

"Killzone has Helghast".

 

[Billy Idol]

Like I said it's not one particular game or necessarily a shooter from first-person perspective, I'm just saying that there's other shooters with some interesting mechanics/options that make them standout on their own.

They may not have MP, they may not be the most popular shooters ever, but I know that those games have something about them that (in a good way) makes them stick out like sore thumbs. Killzone has it's antagonists, it's setting, and it's graphics, but what about it's gameplay that gives it it's sense of 'Wow'. What draws it's fanatics to the game.

Oh and I appreciate the input, I was just curious about everyone's point-of-view on the series, so I'm really glad for the current feedback.

Hm, I can only talk for myself why I like KZ2...so here we go:

-great atmosphere due to the gritty look

-tech is ultra impressive, still one of my favorite games with respect to graphics (especially: all the particles, smoke and debris after 5 seconds of firefight...making the immersion rather intense)

-I like the cinematic views in cutscenes

-Enemies are demanding

-Animation for me are the best available, especially bullet hit reaction + death animation

-Sound is one of the best IMO...if you have the right setup available of course

-First Action game, where I like the vehicle missions (which is basically due to the fact that you play as a Mech with rather similar controll...in this section, explosion+overall are so chaotic that you simple have to love this stuff, IMO of course)

-graphic fidelity/design increase during SP campaign...I was shocked when I first entered the train mission for instance, still unbelievable to me today (try the MP map): lightning, postprocessing, physics...nearly perfect and made me wow all the time (even convinced one of my best buddies who is a die hard PS3 hater!!)

-gameplay felt unique (due to whatever reason )

-some memorable set/action pieces

-Radek is an ass

-no dumb "USA protects the world" story

-Online MP was fun, exploring new classes with new abilities...of course until you have unlocked everything!

-one of the rare SP campaigns which I actually played more than 1 time ... still frequently checking out the salamun bridge sections!

-...

 

[ultragpu]

I couldn't have said it better myself Billy, no shooter portrays a better war movie like atmosphere than kz2, I guess I can sum up the game in a word, CINEMATIC.

 

[Prophecy2k]

Hm, I can only talk for myself why I like KZ2...so here we go:

-great atmosphere due to the gritty look

-tech is ultra impressive, still one of my favorite games with respect to graphics (especially: all the particles, smoke and debris after 5 seconds of firefight...making the immersion rather intense)

-I like the cinematic views in cutscenes

-Enemies are demanding

-Animation for me are the best available, especially bullet hit reaction + death animation

-Sound is one of the best IMO...if you have the right setup available of course

-First Action game, where I like the vehicle missions (which is basically due to the fact that you play as a Mech with rather similar controll...in this section, explosion+overall are so chaotic that you simple have to love this stuff, IMO of course)

-graphic fidelity/design increase during SP campaign...I was shocked when I first entered the train mission for instance, still unbelievable to me today (try the MP map): lightning, postprocessing, physics...nearly perfect and made me wow all the time (even convinced one of my best buddies who is a die hard PS3 hater!!)

-gameplay felt unique (due to whatever reason )

-some memorable set/action pieces

-Radek is an ass

-no dumb "USA protects the world" story

-Online MP was fun, exploring new classes with new abilities...of course until you have unlocked everything!

-one of the rare SP campaigns which I actually played more than 1 time ... still frequently checking out the salamun bridge sections!

-...

Absofrigginlutely!!!!! ;-)

I also think Bigduo209 is also being a little unfair saying that the games lack creativity... i think that in the sea of "creativity lacking FPS games", where each has the exact same selection of weapons that look, feel, shoot and sound the very same, KZ is for me my breath of fresh air... It's consistent (and in my eyes very aesthetically pleasing) art design - kind of a very unconventional sci-fi grounded in realism - is a hallmark of the series and for me really distinguishes the Killzone games from every other shooter out there.

When i look at COD, MOD, BF:BC, Counter Strike, and even games like crysis i just think that as much as the games have consistent art design, fun mechanics and such, they just don't come close to the Killzone games in terms of their visual impact. KZ2 alone creates such an amazing dark & gritty atmosphere that you can't help but get drawn in and immersed in the world.

As much as lots of people like to talk about the graphics tech and post-processing effects, it's KZ2's art design that makes it appeal so much to me. The fact that many have complained rather vocally about the lack of story or fleshing out of the characters in KZ2, is for me not a testament of a game that presents a setting and characters that players don't care at all about (like most FPS games out there), rather a game that presents a setting, world and characters so visually and audibly realised that you just can't help but want to know more about the universe... only great games (and entertainment media in general) can do this well.

So you combine all that with amazing gameplay and a real solid "feel" to the game and you have yourself a winner ;-)

KZ2 is my favourite FPS game outright and i can't wait for KZ3..

 

[specwarGP2]

When i look at COD, MOD, BF:BC, Counter Strike, and even games like crysis i just think that as much as the games have consistent art design, fun mechanics and such, they just don't come close to the Killzone games in terms of their visual impact. KZ2 alone creates such an amazing dark & gritty atmosphere that you can't help but get drawn in and immersed in the world.

COD, MOH, BF:BC and all the rest of the other shooters based on modern warfare dont have much going on in terms of art direction IMO. They're all trying to recrreate real weapons, uniforms and settings so its just not as interesting visually as KZ2/3.