PS3 in the US press...

[Nesh]

No it is not the same as the 499 version is not the premium version, if you make a comparison the 499 have to be compared to the 299 core version, and the premium xbox360 version to the premium ps3 version...because for 399 you get the best xbox version on the marked...while to get the best ps3 version with hdmi you must spend 599...

Also, if you are able to convince all my friends that 200 euros more are an acceptable difference...i think you could sell snow to the eskimos

There are some obvious differences between the "best" 360 and the "best" PS3 right?

If they could sell the PS3 cheaper they would have done it.

And I agree with Arwin. The 20GB PS3 has some extras that justify the price compared to both the core 360 AND the premium 360.

Also the fact that people go for the 60GB say a lot. It may not justify YOUR needs but others feel like paying that extra cash for the more expensive version.

The existence of a more expensive PS3 that costs more than the premium 360 doesnt support your arguement. They could have sold a $1000 PS3 version on top of the other two that could do more. Would you compare it objectively with thje "best" 360 purchase, the premium?? Or would the 20GB and 60GB be a better comparisson?

 

[supervegeta]

There are some obvious differences between the "best" 360 and the "best" PS3 right?

If they could sell the PS3 cheaper they would have done it.

The difference is that you cant upgrade the basic 499 ps3 to the premium ps3 and this really stink

 

[Nesh]

The difference is that you cant upgrade the basic 499 ps3 to the premium ps3 and this really stink

How much would that cost you on top of the 20GB version?

edit: I read "can" instead of "cant"

But still even if you could:
How much would that have costed you on top of the 20GB version?

And I think you can indeed upgrade the most basic features. WiFi addon, and HDD replacement to name

 

[supervegeta]

There are some obvious differences between the "best" 360 and the "best" PS3 right?

If they could sell the PS3 cheaper they would have done it.

And I agree with Arwin. The 20GB PS3 has some extras that justify the price compared to both the core 360 AND the premium 360.

Also the fact that people go for the 60GB say a lot. It may not justify YOUR needs but others feel like paying that extra cash for the more expensive version.

The existence of a more expensive PS3 that costs more than the premium 360 doesnt support your arguement. They could have sold a $1000 PS3 version on top of the other two that could do more. Would you compare it objectively with thje "best" 360 purchase, the premium?? Or would the 20GB and 60GB be a better comparisson?

oh, they could add all the extra they want and sell it for 2000$ and it will still be justified and i am not contesting this...you pay for what you get that is a blu ray player and ecc, ecc....maybe you should read again my post...what i said is, that this price is simply too much for a console here...wharever they put inside ufo tecnology or not.

 

[one]

Here's another perspective from mainstream US press - taking a slightly different route as to how to write about PS3 and Wii:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/22/AR2006112201857.html

Next they should do the comparison between 360 and Wii.

 

[Nesh]

oh, they could add all the extra they want and sell it for 2000$ and it will still be justified and i am not contesting this...you pay for what you get that is a blu ray player and ecc, ecc....maybe you should read again my post...what i said is, that this price is simply too much for a console here...wharever they put inside ufo tecnology or not.

You judge the product too early though. BR will be usable for both games and for movies and the consumer so far seems to care despite that it is supposed to be just a console.
There is also Linux and an open platform enviroment, again people get an extra usage that they may find interesting and already they seem to give it a go
Personally I am addicted a lot to the emulation possibilties.
The online service is also free. If you are using online gaming and services the 360 may seem a cheaper in the short run. On the long run though if we sum online expenses during the console's life plus the console price itself the result may be quite the opposite.

 

[rabidrabbit]

No it is not the same as the 499 version is not the premium version, if you make a comparison the 499 have to be compared to the 299 core version, and the premium xbox360 version to the premium ps3 version...because for 399 you get the best xbox version on the marked...while to get the best ps3 version with hdmi you must spend 599...

Also, if you are able to convince all my friends that 200 euros more are an acceptable difference...i think you could sell snow to the eskimos

When comparing value, it makes no sense to compare the core xbox360 to the 20GB PS3, because the SKU's closest to each other feature-wise are the 20GB PS3 and xbox360 premium.

If you want to compare the introductory prices to next gen gaming, then it should be xb360 core vs. PS3 20GB.

it all comes down to what the buyer thinks he'll use the console for, if only for gaming, then the PS3 20GB vs. xb360 core comparison is valid (even though the PS3 still has the edge of included HD disc player), and the xb360 core might win if the games line-up is your cup of tea. If for gaming plus media centre, then the 20GB PS3 vs. xb360 premium (+HD-DVD addon?) is more even.
The 60GB PS3 really has no direct comparison feature-wise, unless you count the xb360 premium with various pricey add-ons or the 20GB PS3 with WiFi adapter (if such even works with it).

The difference is that you cant upgrade the basic 499 ps3 to the premium ps3 and this really stink

You can, the HDD is fully replaceable by any 2.5" laptop drive, any 3rd party usb card reader can be attached and it's likely you'll be able to use any ethernet to wireless convertor too, only thing that I can think of might be missing from the 20GB PS3 is the PSP<>PS3 remote play, but that might still come with an update.
Oh, and you can't upgrade the chrome finishings to the 20GB PS3, that surely stinks! Yea, the looks of the console would never be the same between 20GB and 60GB versions, but the functionality you sure can upgrade.

 

[supervegeta]

You judge the product too early though. BR will be usable for both games and for movies and the consumer so far seems to care despite that it is supposed to be just a console.
There is also Linux and an open platform enviroment, again people get an extra usage that they may find interesting and already they seem to give it a go
Personally I am addicted a lot to the emulation possibilties.
The online service is also free. If you are using online gaming and services the 360 may seem a cheaper in the short run. On the long run though if we sum online expenses during the console's life plus the console price itself the result may be quite the opposite.

I am judging the console in base of the reaction of all the friends that bough a ps2 back then...they buyed a ps2 for 300 euros, and , despite all the new tech that surely justify the price, they still think 599 is too much and that only then the console will be 300 they are going to buy it.

 

[Nesh]

I am judging the console in base of the reaction of all the friends that bough a ps2 back then...they buyed a ps2 for 300 euros, and , despite all the new tech that surely justify the price, they still think 599 is too much and that only then the console will be 300 they are going to buy it.

Times change.

 

[supervegeta]

When comparing value, it makes no sense to compare the core xbox360 to the 20GB PS3, because the SKU's closest to each other feature-wise are the 20GB PS3 and xbox360 premium.
[\quote]

But thats how they are marketed and thats how the casual gamers see them, two products, two consoles that are sell in two versions, one is the basic version and one premium version, wharever the basic version of ps3 offer similar feature is not important, it is still the chap version of ps3.

If you want to compare the introductory prices to next gen gaming, then it should be xb360 core vs. PS3 20GB.

it all comes down to what the buyer thinks he'll use the console for, if only for gaming, then the PS3 20GB vs. xb360 core comparison is valid, and the xb360 core might win if the games line -up is your cup of tea. If for gaming plus media centre, then the 20GB PS3 vs. xb360 premium (+HD-DVD addon?) is more even.
The 60GB PS3 really has no direct comparison feature-wise, unless you count the xb360 premium with various pricey add-ons or the 20GB PS3 with WiFi adapter (if such even works with it).

You can, the HDD is fully replaceable by any 2.5" laptop drive, any 3rd party usb card reader can be attached and it's likely you'll be able to use any ethernet to wireless convertor too, only thing that I can think of might be missing from the 20GB PS3 is the PSP<>PS3 remote play, but that might still come with an update.
Oh, and you can't upgrade the chrome finishings to the 20GB PS3, that surely stinks! Yea, the looks of the console would never be the same between 20GB and 60GB versions, but the functionality you sure can upgrade.

I dont agree here as one of the most important thing on the premium is the hdmi and you can't ugrade that.

 

[supervegeta]

Times change.

but the money remain the same.

 

[Nesh]

but the money remain the same.

Not how people value the product.

For example I have a friend who never cared about a Playstation brand before. For the first time he cares and he wants a PS3. He wont get it now, but not because he thinks the price is too expensive for a console, but because its too expensive for his pocket to pay $600 for anything.

So the price is perfectly justifiable even for a console. Its not expensive for a console that just launched. Its just expensive in general.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Had the PS3 price been too high, there wouldn't be more demand than supply.
As long as the PS3 sells all they can make (which, I agree, isn't that much right now) with the price it has, the price is spot-on.
You may not like the price, the press may not like the price, but Sony and investors sure as hell loves the price, as long as it sells!
Whether it will continue to sell at that price, and how long, remains to be seen.
My bet is, Sony are safe to hold on to that price until next holiday.

It's not like Sony hadn't done some market research before settling for the price-point for PS3.

I'm sure there was a questionnaire somewhere asking a question like:

- How much do you expect to pay for a media centre computer/games console capable of high definition next generation games, HD and Blu-ray movie play, web-browsing, instant messaging, photo viewing, music play and downloadable music and movies plus capable of runnig a fully functional Linux OS in addition to it's proprieraty, simple to use OS for everyday use.
A) below $200
B) $200-$400
C) $400-$600
D) $600-$800
E) $800 or more

What would you have crossed?
I wouldn't be surprised the options D and E were the most popular.

 

[rabidrabbit]

But thats how they are marketed and thats how the casual gamers see them, two products, two consoles that are sell in two versions, one is the basic version and one premium version, wharever the basic version of ps3 offer similar feature is not important, it is still the chap version of ps3.

So, you're basically claiming the features don't matter at all to the purchaser, he just buys whatever is cheapest.
That's not how it works when buying whatever product, I could make up countless analogies here, but will settle for the most popular one, a car analogy:
Would you buy the cheapest new car right away and not compare makers and models for things like features and reliability?

Why then, when it comes to games consoles the price is the most important factor, if not the only factor, that is compared when choosing?

I dont agree here as one of the most important thing on the premium is the hdmi and you can't ugrade that.

The 20GB PS3 does have the HDMI now, or have I dreamt it???

 

[Nesh]

Nope. It does

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Man I was going through the thread and wondering why nobody points out that the 20GB model does have hdmi, but Finally it came out! :smile:

As for the price thing. It is true that the core PS3 is better comparison to the premium X360, but it still doesn't negate the fact that you can walk into a store with 299$ and come out with X360, whereas you need 499$ to do the same for PS3. That is a fact and it matters.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Well, if the consoles were purchased mainly by impulse, it would matter.

 

[Paul_G]

There is only more supply than demand because fans with more money than sense and scalpers are buying them. I give it 6 months before they need to drop that price, unless they can start showing games that are demonstrably better in terms of visuals.

Also, what does market research have to do with anything? Even if we agree the iSupply figure is on the high side, i'm sure we can all agree also that Sony are losing money on the system, and $500/$600 is not the price because they think the market will accept it, it's the price because to go lower would mean waiting that much longer to get a decent attach ratio and recover the costs.

I think the problem some people have with the system is that it's too laden with features. I hate these car analogies, but it's like going out and buying a car. All you want is to get from A-B (play games) and when you get to the dealership, you find that the only one they'll sell you is the top range model with all the extras. What good is CD Multichanger, or Sat-nav, or alloys, or screens in the headrests when you're driving alone and just need to get to work each day? There are plenty of people out there who love Sony franchises, and $300 may have been acceptable to them at the launch of the PS2 so they could get the latest Tekken. $500 could well be too much for these people if they're never planning to watch a movie, or download stuff, or browse the web, or view photos on there. Regardless of whether $500 is a good deal for what you're getting, it may not be a good deal for what you want and if all you want is to play MGS4 or GT5, then you're not getting a good deal at all.

 

[Platon]

But yeah ,Europe is irrelevant for MS based on anecdotal evidence from fan boys on GAF that pull sales numbers out of their...you know what.

I had the irrelevent within "" just to show that I didn't really mean it in that sense. Of course we are not irrelevent, otherwise MS wouldn't have launched here at the same time as the rest of the world, and they know that if they want to have a large share of the global market you can't afford to do bad in Europe, however, there is little doubt that compared to the US the 360 isn't doing really well here, and despite everything so far we still seem to be like Sony land here, but that does not mean that things will not change, on the contrary, but it will most likely take time...

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Well, if the consoles were purchased mainly by impulse, it would matter.

I think some things need to be put in perspective. We have people saying that 200$ difference in entry level models doesn't make a difference, and at the same time people saying that the need to swap discs every 15hours is making a difference...

Low price may not create demand, but it surely drives it, if any demand exists in the first place.