PS3 and Automatic Scaling.

[habbe]

Isn't scaling a bad thing ?.

It would be better if the games was rendered in different resolutions instead of using some kind of scaling right ?.

if that is correct there will be an issue with 1080P panels and games that is rendered in 720P. it has to be upscaled (by either the source or the panel) if you dont want a 32" inch picture on your 40" panel

So what do you prefer upscale or downscaled or nonscaled ?.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

So what do you prefer upscale or downscaled or nonscaled ?.

It will likely depend on your viewing device.

CRTs, for example, would simply take the 720p signal and "distribute" it to fill the entire viewing area...in a sense increasing the pixel size. No real "scaling" involved.

For fixed resultion displays (LCDs / plasmas)...then upscaling vs. non-scaled (but smaller picture) is likely a personal preference....and would depend on the application, and quality of the scaling algorithm. For most console games (where viewing distance is relatively far), I would suspect that scaling up would be preferable to smaller size

 

[hey69]

i wish my PC had a scaler inside so i could play at 1600x1200 for once :smile:

 

[nelg]

SCEA Comments on PS3 Resolution on Older HDTVs

Sony is working on a fix for sets that lack 720p [Updated!]


Sony has contacted us to let us know that they may have spoken a bit prematurely. SCEA's Dave Karraker, Sr. Director, Corporate Communications, informed GameDaily BIZ that they currently cannot confirm that this 1080i issue will be resolved via a firmware patch. The official line is now that they are "looking into the issue and haven't stated any actions that will be taken regarding it."

 

[Geo]

Ooh, I don't like the looks of that. That looks ominously like "we're going to hunker down for awhile and see if it is few enough people that it will blow over".

 

[22psi]

Come on Sony! I have a 1080i only hdtv set!

 

[habbe]

I have to ask this question, it's not to try to defend sony or anything.

But is a console the right place to do scaling ?. shouldn't that be one of the functions in the Tv set ?.

Please enlighten me why it should be a part of the console...

i do know some 1080I sets don't include scalar functionality but in this HD era it would make more sense for me to include it in the tv set, or else don't include it in the tv set but do include it in every other hd video product that i might buy.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I have to ask this question, it's not to try to defend sony or anything.

But is a console the right place to do scaling ?. shouldn't that be one of the functions in the Tv set ?.

Please enlighten me why it should be a part of the console...

i do know some 1080I sets don't include scalar functionality but in this HD era it would make more sense for me to include it in the tv set, or else don't include it in the tv set but do include it in every other hd video product that i might buy.

It should be in both, that way the user can choose which they prefer. For example, my TV is 1080i, I can either send my TV a 720p signal from 360 presumably unscaled, or I can send it native 1080i which was scaled on the 360. 1080i looks a little bit better to my eyes.

Some TV scalars are better than others, so I like the option of having your console output whatever the native resolution is on your TV.

 

[Geo]

Please enlighten me why it should be a part of the console...

Due to the lack of time machines to go back and make TVs sold a few years ago include 720p. That historical fact should have been known to Sony, and accounted for in some fashion. . . either thru a scaler, or a better education/communication effort to let that subgroup know in advance that they'd be out of luck, rather than after they got the critter home.

 

[patsu]

Poor homeless PS3s... with mismatched TV sets.... come ! Come to papa now.

 

[dobwal]

I have to ask this question, it's not to try to defend sony or anything.

But is a console the right place to do scaling ?. shouldn't that be one of the functions in the Tv set ?.

Please enlighten me why it should be a part of the console...

i do know some 1080I sets don't include scalar functionality but in this HD era it would make more sense for me to include it in the tv set, or else don't include it in the tv set but do include it in every other hd video product that i might buy.

It isn't a matter of "should be", since it already exist on competitor's console. Sony takes a pretty transparent feature (to the mainstream gamers with a HDTV) on the 360 and makes an obvious positive feature to those who's HDTV are missing one of the HD formats.

 

[Kryton]

It isn't a matter of "should be", since it already exist on competitor's console. Sony takes a pretty transparent feature (to the mainstream gamers with a HDTV) on the 360 and makes an obvious positive feature to those who's HDTV are missing one of the HD formats.

Thank goodness it is only in the USA/Japan that this problem exists. I never thought I'd see the day when I could praise European technology standards . The only issue here is the subtle differences between HD-Ready (does 720p) and HD-Compatible (scales HD resolutions).

Is a non-720p (but 1080i) TV still considered a HDTV in America, under the current branding? I know here the TVs must support 720p and can include any further resolutions that they like.

 

[mrcorbo]

Is a non-720p (but 1080i) TV still considered a HDTV in America, under the current branding? I know here the TVs must support 720p and can include any further resolutions that they like.

For clarity, HDTVs are required to be able to display 720p over-the-air content. When native display support is lacking this must be scaled. The problem is, that this scaling isn't required to be implemented for anything but the tuner. And at the time the standard was ratified, there were unlikely to be any other sources of high-resolution content available to the purchaser. People were soon using external scalers to upconvert SD content to HD for (relatively) high quality playback on the new sets and some intrepid souls used transcoders to convert a PC's VGA output to component and connect to them, but in general, there wasn't a lot of reason to require scaling of the component video inputs at the time as part of the standard.

 

[dobwal]

Is a non-720p (but 1080i) TV still considered a HDTV in America, under the current branding? I know here the TVs must support 720p and can include any further resolutions that they like.

Whether or not you can label a TV as "HDTV" or not is irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact the there are TVs capable of displaying HD content using the Xbox 360 but limited to ED content on the PS3.

 

[swanlee]

1080I is as much of an HD spec'd resolution as 720P. No where does it say an HDTV cannot be called an HDTV if it does not support 720P. As long as it support 1080I it is an HDTV. Almost all CRT HDTV's did not and do not support 720P and those are still HDTV's.

This issue is 100% Sony's fault, the PS3 is broken out of the box without a scaler, and also Sony has sold hundreds of thousands 1080I only CRT TV's over the years.

For the first few years of HDTV's you could only get 1080I

 

[sir doris]

1080I is as much of an HD spec'd resolution as 720P. No where does it say an HDTV cannot be called an HDTV if it does not support 720P. As long as it support 1080I it is an HDTV. Almost all CRT HDTV's did not and do not support 720P and those are still HDTV's.

This issue is 100% Sony's fault, the PS3 is broken out of the box without a scaler, and also Sony has sold hundreds of thousands 1080I only CRT TV's over the years.

For the first few years of HDTV's you could only get 1080I

Specifically for Europe for a TV to be "HD ready" it must have three things:

1) HDCP compatable HDMI or DVI connection
2) have a native resolution of at least 720 vertical lines
3) accept both 720p (50 and 60Hz) and 1080i(25 and 30Hz).

BTW does anyone know if Sony sold any of these 1080i only sets?

 

[Ben-Nice]

Looks like a fix is not coming soon

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3155488

Sony of America has officially moved to squelch those rumors floating around the Internet lately to the effect that a firmware patch is incoming for PS3's with the unfortunate habit of downscaling certain games to 480p. The 480p problem occurs when a PS3 is paired to a television incapable of displaying a 720p signal. If the PS3 is set to 1080i resolution it will default to a 480p display, as the system is incapable of upscaling 720p games to 1080i, right now.

GameDaily BIZ recently spoke to Dave Karraker, Sony's senior director of corporate communications. In the interview Karracker states that Sony is "looking into the issue and haven't stated any actions that will be taken regarding it."

While Karraker did not deny the existence of a theoretical firmware patch somewhere down the line, he DID confirm that such a thing won't be happening any time soon.

 

[Snyder]

Kind of embarassing IMO for a CE device marketed as a home HD media center.

As a display maker Sony should know more than anyone the variety of connections (VGA, Component, Composit, S-Video, HDMI, etc), HD display technologies and native resolutions, as well as TV scaler issues and how they could impact fast paced games.

Yes, as a display maker they should. But, as a display maker, they also should have done away with some annoying scaling limitations of many of their (otherwise fine) recent HD TV sets (overscan can't be turned off, VGA input limited to XGA)...
I don't think it's a good idea to count on their display experience when it comes to resolution flexibility.

 

[Ons::lob::]

Looks like a fix is not coming soon

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3155488

Sony of America has officially moved to squelch those rumors floating around the Internet lately to the effect that a firmware patch is incoming for PS3's with the unfortunate habit of downscaling certain games to 480p. The 480p problem occurs when a PS3 is paired to a television incapable of displaying a 720p signal. If the PS3 is set to 1080i resolution it will default to a 480p display, as the system is incapable of upscaling 720p games to 1080i, right now.

GameDaily BIZ recently spoke to Dave Karraker, Sony's senior director of corporate communications. In the interview Karracker states that Sony is "looking into the issue and haven't stated any actions that will be taken regarding it."

While Karraker did not deny the existence of a theoretical firmware patch somewhere down the line, he DID confirm that such a thing won't be happening any time soon.

I guess I won't be getting a ps3 anytime soon then, as my television only supports 1080i.....unless one of you guys feel in the mood to donate.

 

[Mintmaster]

I might be confusing things, but did I read somewhere that PS3 does scale up to 1080p even if the game outputs 720p? If this is true, I don't see why it would be hard to output 1080i instead.

Of course I could have misread something.

I didn't know there are few CRT HDTV's (RP or direct view) that support 720p. A lot of hardcore HT enthusiasts still prefer CRT to any fixed panel technology.