PS3 and Automatic Scaling.

[MasaC]

Not quite. In fact, of the four games I have, none have a resolution setting. What the games try to do is best accommodate the resolutions you have selected (in the XMB), and everything else is scaled automatically to what you set in the XMB's display settings, or the highest its allowed to go (like 640x480 for DVDs). I guess that's the best way to look at it, in the XMB you set the highest resolution your TV can go*. The BD menu (while playing a BD) has basically no settings (though plenty of options), all of those settings are handled in the BD menu in the XMB. But, as stated, there's no separate resolution setting for different media/applications.

*The resolution order for the PS3 looks like this:

1. NTSC
2. 480p
3. 1080i
4. 720p
5. 1080p

The custom resolution setting allows you to select each resolution individually, and test them. I don't currently have a display that can do both 720p and 1080i, if I did, I would select those two and check to see if Ridge Racer plays in 1080i while Resistance plays in 720p.

OK, so the games check XMB för video setting then. How about the settings in the BD player menu? Do you have a BD movie so you can check them? I know that on PS2 you had to insert a DVD movie, start playback and then press stop to access the DVD player settings where you for example could set 4:3 or 16:9 playback. I suspect the same thing goes for the PS3.

Unfortunately I personally have to wait until March'07 to check these things out myself so it would be much appreciated if you could do this for me.

 

[Arwin]

There's an interview with Phil Harrison now on IGN, where they ask some of the questions we have been wanting to have answers to. Unfortunately, for this particular issue, he's not giving a very clear answer. My translation of that answer is:

480p/1080i ownsers are few and fucked ...

Seriously, after stressing that there really aren't that many games like this out there, I think he is basically saying that while you normally don't have to mess with the display settings at all in the menu, for this special case you may have to in order to get the results that the developers intended you to have. Now I can't test, but from the looks of it, this means that basically games will only output at resolutions that they support at this time.

He was also asked about access to the XMB online chat and friends-list functions from within a game, and he confirmed that those features (and many more, he adds) will come in through firmware upgrades.

 

[pipo]

He was also asked about access to the XMB online chat and friends-list functions from within a game, and he confirmed that those features (and many more, he adds) will come in through firmware upgrades.

Sometime. Really.

Man are those guys late at the party... I sure hope they will fix it, but I still have serious doubts on the final implementation of those features.

Here's Joystiqs take on the subject, and background downloading? I'll believe it when I see it.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/20/playstation-store-download-limbo-ps3-annoyance-004/

 

[Bad_Boy]

hmm..
http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/news/?id=14518

A number of reports have been circulating on the Internet recently, suggesting that Sony's new PlayStation 3 has encountered problems displaying high-definition visuals on HDTV sets that do not support 720p. Today Sony Computer Entertainment America confirmed the problem to GameDaily BIZ:

The SCEA spokesperson went on to assure us that Sony is working on a solution.

Hope the firmware update comes soon.

 

[EricVonZipper]

hmm..
http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/news/?id=14518


Hope the firmware update comes soon.

I hope so:

Phil Harrison says:

"If you have a tv that only supports 1080i, and there are VERY VERY few of those, then you have to play around with the settings in the machine, but you'll get the experience that the design is intended, and it looks incredible."

Very few of them?! Probably 4 million sets in the US alone, Japan is MUCH worse off.

I have a Mitsubishi 55807 and the entire line of Mitsu's CRT/RPTV are 1080i/480i/p.These HDTV's have been great sellers for the past 10 years in Japan.

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/j/i/18344/OwnersGuides.html?tid=17&f1=2005&s=3

FIX IT SONY!

 

[Johnny Awesome]

It's a serious oversight. I can't believe people are still apologizing for them.

 

[Gradthrawn]

OK, so the games check XMB för video setting then. How about the settings in the BD player menu? Do you have a BD movie so you can check them? I know that on PS2 you had to insert a DVD movie, start playback and then press stop to access the DVD player settings where you for example could set 4:3 or 16:9 playback. I suspect the same thing goes for the PS3.

Unfortunately I personally have to wait until March'07 to check these things out myself so it would be much appreciated if you could do this for me.

Yeah, I have a few BDs. BD player settings are also in the XMB. BD videos can be displayed at 1080p, 1080i, 480p or 480i. Direct 720p scaling is not currently supported. If you have your maximum display resolution at 720p, the PS3 will assume your set can accept a 1080i signal. Unlike sets that can accept 1080i and not 720p, I can't think of any that go the other way. Accept, of course, for standard monitors that obviously can't accept an interlaced signal. In which, I suppose the user would select 1080p as their highest resolution.

Here's Joystiqs take on the subject, and background downloading? I'll believe it when I see it.

Had you said that ("I'll believe background downloading when I see it") at the 360's launch you would wrong right now (actually, as of a month or two ago). Simply looking at the PSPs functionality at launch vs where it is now should clue anyone in as to how serious SCE is about functionality (and security) updates. In terms of background downloads and other simple things like in-game XMB communication access I'm rather confused by why there's such a huge doubt over this?

 

[Acert93]

It's a serious oversight. I can't believe people are still apologizing for them.

Kind of embarassing IMO for a CE device marketed as a home HD media center.

As a display maker Sony should know more than anyone the variety of connections (VGA, Component, Composit, S-Video, HDMI, etc), HD display technologies and native resolutions, as well as TV scaler issues and how they could impact fast paced games.

Actually, as I think about it, I am certain they do. This was a calculated move. A dedicate scaler would have cost more money and if not planned from the get go (1080p, HDMI, multi-HDMI on the front burner with a "forward looking" market approach?) could have caused further delays.

With all the delays and high expectations this is frustrating I am sure (sicks to be innovators and early adopters!), but it sounds like Sony is gonna do something about this. I know it took a couple updates for MS to resolve every last issue with VGA output with non-720p framebuffer games. Hopefully Sony can get all the wrinkles out now and make HD set owners of all sorts happy, and quickly.

 

[Rolf N]

I hope so:

Phil Harrison says:

"If you have a tv that only supports 1080i, and there are VERY VERY few of those, then you have to play around with the settings in the machine, but you'll get the experience that the design is intended, and it looks incredible."

Very few of them?! Probably 4 million sets in the US alone, Japan is MUCH worse off.

I have a Mitsubishi 55807 and the entire line of Mitsu's CRT/RPTV are 1080i/480i/p.These HDTV's have been great sellers for the past 10 years in Japan.

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/j/i/18344/OwnersGuides.html?tid=17&f1=2005&s=3

FIX IT SONY!

Any aperture-grille CRT (Trinitron, Diamondtron et al) capable of supporting widescreen progressive PAL can easily be retrofitted for 1080i. 540 progressive lines per frame. Then you just knock down the ray by half a line width on every even frame and voilá, golden. AGs are "open" in the Y axis, so that's all you really need to do.
That doesn't mean the display is actually fit to display more than 576 lines (which is easily proven by the absence of 720p support). In a way you've been f***ed already when you bought that TV in hope of getting something "HDTV". It's not. It's just widescreen. It's "EDTV" at best. In Europe you would have been protected from that sort of nonsense by consumer protection laws.

That being said, a robust scaler is a very nice thing to have and Sony should have seen it coming. This omission is a real mistake. Would be better for them if the rumors of the currently-unused-but-soon scaling hardware are true.

 

[Arwin]

There are two things that I can see:

- not including a hi-def monitor cable. What would you pick? HDMI or Component? People would complain either way. For Sony, it'd have to be HDMI anyway.

- scaler: it needs to be able to handle both analog and digital signals. Could be tricky.

However, I seem to remember that some debug versions of the PS3 had an option for 'custom resolution'? Right now, I'm thinking the most logical explanation is that they're slow with the firmware - this seems to be the safest bet with Sony, as they're always a tad slow with software anyway.

For the Blu-Ray, it should be a pretty straight forward BluRay software fix, and I heard a new version of that is already coming before the year is over.

 

[patsu]

There is an easier solution. Just include a Sony (discount) coupon for them to pick what cables/peripherals they need...

 

[pipo]

Had you said that ("I'll believe background downloading when I see it") at the 360's launch you would wrong right now (actually, as of a month or two ago).

But I didn't. And you need a new calendar.

I hope it'll be there when I'm buying my system...

 

[Ben-Nice]

Supposedly they will be fixing the scaling issue. No timetable though

http://ps3.qj.net/Sony-promises-to-fix-PS3-s-720p-issues/pg/49/aid/73721

It looks like PS3 owners will be getting their resolution issues patched up. Sony's now working on a way to resolve the 720p downscaling that occurs in some older high-definition television (HDTV) sets.

Now, we've mentioned the little issues the PS3 seems to be having with games meant for 720p before. Basically, older HDTV models supported 480p and 1080i resolutions, but not 720p. Games meant to be played in 720p resolution get scaled down on some of those older TVs, "kicking down" the visuals to 480p resolution rather than bumping the quality up to 1080i.

Sony currently says that the problem is more of an issue on the side of the TVs rather than the console itself, but they're going to be fixing the problem as best they can. A date for the fix wasn't specified, but the fix is meant to be a future firmware download, so it shouldn't be too problematic for PS3 owners to resolve once the fix is out.

Of course, if you don't own an HDTV, HDMI cables, and a PS3, then you've got absolutely nothing to worry about. Fancy that.

 

[London Geezer]

Of course, if you don't own an HDTV, HDMI cables, and a PS3, then you've got absolutely nothing to worry about. Fancy that.

Or if you're in Europe. Then again, if you're in Europe you have to worry about not-having the bloody thing but i digress...

 

[crosseye]

So, is it known that they have not included a scaler in the PS3? If they didn't, that's just an outright FU to people from them. Sony knows good and well TV scalers are set to be the LAST resort. If you're going to market your product as the "TrueHD" machine, don't leave out a "TrueHD" feature.

As far as the background downloading and other stuff, I think there's two stances I have here. The background DLs can be updated with a firmware update. However, it should already be there. Copy and paste is all you had to do. MS did it, you need it. The no access to the XMB is just borderline retarded. They've had a whole extra year to figure this out. They've seen the 360 and they claim their system will match it, and pass it with ease. To leave something so fundamental as access to the XMB while in game out, well, there's no apologizing for them that can be done.

 

[Gubbi]

Or if you're in Europe. Then again, if you're in Europe you have to worry about not-having the bloody thing but i digress...

There you go, all bitter again.

And when you finally get your paws on it... for the price of £599 you'll be bitter about that as well

Cheers

 

[London Geezer]

There you go, all bitter again.

And when you finally get your paws on it... for the price of £599 you'll be bitter about that as well

Cheers

599??? Better not!! last i heard it should be 450 quid... which is still 900 dollars anyway... wait, that means the UK is paying ebay prices.... NICE!!

*bitter*

 

[Shifty Geezer]

So, is it known that they have not included a scaler in the PS3? If they didn't, that's just an outright FU to people from them. Sony knows good and well TV scalers are set to be the LAST resort. If you're going to market your product as the "TrueHD" machine, don't leave out a "TrueHD" feature.

TrueHD is a marketting buzzword for 1080p, and of course only works with TrueHD TVs.

Copy and paste is all you had to do. MS did it, you need it. The no access to the XMB is just borderline retarded. They've had a whole extra year to figure this out.

It could be that they did figure all this out and added all those features, but they hadn't figured out the ideal way to multitask GameOS with other activities. I guess they're trying to get an OS running pretty much solely on a SPE, which might be quite tricky. Could be that they're in the optimizing phase, with the work too slow for general release when the launch deadline hit.

Again, I think criticisms should be reserved until we know what exactly to criticize! Sony failing to appreciate the need for background DLing might not be their failing. The fault might be something else, such as failing to write an OS that runs on a SPE in parallel with independent operation of the rest of the Cell in time for launch.

 

[expletive]

Wait until these screaming, early-adopting, 1080i people start realizing that the PS3 wont work with their Sony universal IR remote.

/runs away

 

[patsu]

Yeah I was wondering about it. Perhaps there will be a gain in functionality later on...
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1164