ps2 not a game console?

[marconelly!]

I didn't say that Sony themselves were pathetic. I said the case was pathetic.

Case did not materialized from the empty void all by itself. Sony started it. When you say that someone's case is pathetic, you are pretty much saying how he's stupid to try to do something like that no? At least that's my understanding of the logic behind that. If that's not what you meant, I guess it was just worded poorly.

 

[Teasy]

I'm with Sony on this one... why should there be arbitrary taxes levied on something just because it's intended to play games rather than run a word-processor?

If that was the case then I would be right behind them too because I see no reason why consoles should get taxed more then anything else. But Sony weren't trying to challenge the fact that consoles get taxed. They were trying to get the PS2 catagorized as a computer to bipass these taxes.. which is a bit different. As I said though I'm not actually condeming them for it (I think they're trying to pull a fast one, but that's all), even though I think its a a totally stupid case, I was condeming the court that agreed with them (or that I thought had agreed with them at the time).

 

[Teasy]

Case did not materialized from the empty void all by itself. Sony started it. When you say that someone's case is pathetic, you are pretty much saying how he's stupid to try to do something like that no? At least that's my understanding of the logic behind that. If that's not what you meant, I guess it was just worded poorly.

Calling Sony's case pathetic is not the same as calling them pathetic.. its as simple as that. You could say I bashed Sony.. because I did a bit, but I did not call them pathetic so you put words into my mouth there.

P.S. your yet to answer this question:

How can you act as if my whole post was bashing Sony instead of the ruling itself when it was actually the other way around?.. could you explain that?

 

[Fafalada]

Are other kind of software available (commerically) on them, like spreadsheet, word processing.... answer is no... So that's definetly a computer entertainment system, and so a console.

The answer is in fact, YES. LinuxKit is very much commercially available for PS2, and with it are all the hundreds of spreadshets, word processing, databases, development apps, etc...
By your own definition, Sony is not only completely in the right, but the PS2 is in fact, the ONLY console eligible to be called a computer.

Either way, I completely agree with MrWibble, this particular law is/was nonsense.

 

[Vince]

Vince - Explain to me exactly how I am "jumping on Sony like a typical E3 attendee on a boothbabe"? I simply didn't do that.

Um...

This is the most pathetic thing I've ever heard. Of course as we all know no other console in existence has ever had a processor in it right Sony?

Right, you showed great restraint in waiting for the details to emerge before calling it pathetic and bashing Sony on an ignorant and sarcastic charge. Way to troll...

 

[marconelly!]

How can you act as if my whole post was bashing Sony instead of the ruling itself when it was actually the other way around?.. could you explain that?

Well, I felt like the gist of your post was indeed to say that what Sony was doing is somehow wrong and pathetic. I guess I was mistaken, but the way you wrote it made me think that. Honestly, I can't help but think if you would word it the same way if it was Nintendo doing the same thing :\[/code][/quote]

 

[cthellis42]

The answer is in fact, YES. LinuxKit is very much commercially available for PS2, and with it are all the hundreds of spreadshets, word processing, databases, development apps, etc...
By your own definition, Sony is not only completely in the right, but the PS2 is in fact, the ONLY console eligible to be called a computer.

Good point. Was the software angle actually brought up in their challenge, and if so what kind of emphasis was it getting? I assumed they were mainly talking about internal hardware components.

 

[MrWibble]

Anyways, Sony actually lost this, and the first news of them winning was some misinpretation. Still, the proof that the law was stupid to begin with, comes with the last paragraph:
...

Whether they won or lost seems to be open for debate. The court is claiming that it's a loss for Sony. However Sony seem to think that they've won...

The court thinks they won because it was all based on some technicality and they still haven't admitted that their classification system is bogus. What they said, was that the PS2 could in fact be classified under *either* of the headings, and while that didn't mean it *wasnt* a games console, the court screwed up when it ruled that the PS2 couldn't be a computer.

Sony thinks they won (not unreasonably IMO) because the court admitted the PS2 could be a computer, the earlier ruling was overturned, they won their legal costs, and they're now able to claim back all that tax. Even if not an out right victory, it's a good result.

Here's a link to Sony's press release:

http://www.scee.presscentre.com/Content/Detail.asp?ReleaseID=128&NewsAreaID=2

(it links to the judgement itself, if you read legalese).

Oh, and on the subject on them just doing this for themselves... Naturally Sony isn't going to spend money fighting for their competitors. However they are the first people to challange this in the court, and if they were to win, it could set precedents making it easier for others to do the same, or possibly even for the law to the changed.

It's also arguable that as the only manufacturer who openly support their platform being used as more than just a games machine, they're the only ones who currently qualify anyway.

If you ask me, Microsoft in particular are idiots if they're paying taxes (or making the customer pay taxes) on what is, more than anything else out there, just a PC in a fancy plastic case. If anyone could fight that classification system, you'd think it'd be them...

 

[Vince]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/33206.html[/url]]For the purposes of calculating import duty, the European regulations offer a number of criteria by which a device may be considered a computer - specifically, an "automatic data processing machine". The key factor in the PS2 case was whether the machine can be programmed by customers and users. Sony contended that the availability of a version of Linux for the PS2, along with appropriate programming tools, ensured the machine is indeed freely programmable.

Teasy, thanks for the argument. It was 'ohh so relevent', huh? Now do you see why I said it would be adventageous to hold off? Nah, why have restaint when you can bash today and shrug it off tomorrow?


I would also assume that if Linux is a core issue (as I earlier questioned), that we won't be seeing the same for MS or Cube in the near future. Sony made a smart strategic decision, way to go SCEE.

 

[cthellis42]

And hey, if MS put in Linux to get some tax rebates as well, so much the better, eh?

Not that I see that happening in, oh... <checks watch> the next century or so.

 

[Teasy]

Right, you showed great restraint in waiting for the details to emerge before calling it pathetic and bashing Sony on an ignorant and sarcastic charge. Way to troll...

Did I argue with your earlier comment when you suggested that I should have waited before commenting? No I argued with your suggestion that I was "jumping all over Sony". I made one 20 word long sarcastic comment about Sony in a post of around 250 words, and to you that means I'm "jumping all over Sony".. come off it!

Oh and I did not troll. I saw a quote from an article and I expressed my opinion that what it suggested was pathetic. That is not trolling. Did you see me calling you a troll when you blatently lied about GC in an earlier thread?..nope. I guess I just have a little bit more restraint then you eh?

Teasy, thanks for the argument. It was 'ohh so relevent', huh? Now do you see why I said it would be adventageous to hold off? Nah, why have restaint when you can bash today and shrug it off tomorrow?

How long are you going to bleet about one insignificant comment that you already replied to in this thread 2 days ago? Another day?, 2 days maybe?, just give me a guestimate here