ps2 not a game console?

[epicstruggle]

The Luxembourg-based Court of First Instance rejected the decision by the European Commission to classify the Playstation as a games console. Sony argued it should be a computer -- and thus eligible for a lower duty -- because of the processors inside. The judges agreed with Sony that the classification "should be carried out on the basis of the components of the item, and not its purpose."

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/business/6898163.htm
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11843
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11843

Since its not a game console, and is in fact a computer why can I not legally mod it? Could mod chips be considered accesories? Adding more functionality not planned for a pc.

seems interesting.
later,
epic

 

[epicstruggle]

I hope this has been posted. i did a quick search and found nothing.
later,
epic

 

[epicstruggle]

Just thought of something, given all the hoopla about locking non console based threads. Shouldnt we lock ALL sony/ps2 threads? Obviously Sony doesnt think their product is a game console. So why should we.

I hereby call the mods to shutdown/lock/move all ps2 threads.

later,

 

[Vince]

Just thought of something, given all the hoopla about locking non console based threads. Shouldnt we lock ALL sony/ps2 threads? Obviously Sony doesnt think their product is a game console. So why should we.

I hereby call the mods to shutdown/lock/move all ps2 threads.

later,

Although, on a serious note, I wonder how much of an influence the Linux Enviroment had in this decision.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Sony argued it should be a computer -- and thus eligible for a lower duty -- because of the processors inside. The judges agreed with Sony that the classification "should be carried out on the basis of the components of the item, and not its purpose."

I think Linux for PlayStation 2 had no influence in this decision ( judging from this quote at least ).

 

[Freak'n Big Panda]

does this apply to all consoles then? I mean all console ever were, were just computers dedicated to gamming. Does this mean that all other consoles currently (xbox, GBA, GC) shipping will be free of this duty?

 

[cthellis42]

Xbox should be able to follow suit, but I'm not so sure about the GameCube, since it doesn't have as many extras bundled in or even expandable-to. They'd have to make their own case, at which point I guess one can cross-check the merits.

Laws are still funny. Hehe...

 

[CMcK]

I take Sony were trying to avoid the taxes levied in the EU on DVD players?

That would explain why ads in the US usually refer to the PS2 as a computer entertainment system.

Will this signal a further price cut for European gamers? I doubt it.

 

[London Geezer]

in fact... PS2 will have a GB£30 price cut from today, so said the papers...

didn't think it deserved a whole thread... so we can discuss it here...

it goes from GB£169 to GB£139....

so there u go...

 

[Nick Laslett]

The PS2 ships with YABASIC in Europe, on the bundled demo disc. This was an attempt by Sony to get the PS2 classed as a Computer. This failed initially, but they have had that decision over turned. The reason why they wanted to have the PS2 classed as a computer was to get it exempt from certain import taxes that are applied to video game consoles in Europe.

Just think of all the money Sony will recoup on the 12 million consoles they have already sold in Europe!

 

[hey69]

the tax cut implies that the current UK price will come to the same level of the EU price of 199EURO tax included.
apperently , UK had a higher price tag and they are bringing it to same level.

 

[Teasy]

Sony argued it should be a computer -- and thus eligible for a lower duty -- because of the processors inside.

This is the most pathetic thing I've ever heard. Of course as we all know no other console in existence has ever had a processor in it right Sony?

I mean FFS.. why don't they get some people who actually know what a processor is to judge these sort of cases? Instead of senile old foggies that still think the lightbulb is a clever knew-fangled gadget....

If this little scheme works out for Sony then effectively the tax for consoles will be completely null and void. Because consoles will no longer exist in the eye's of the law. Since what makes something a console has always been its pupose and not its components. Not that that's a bad thing, it just shows how utterly stupid this ruling is and what a total lack of understanding the people who make the rules have!

On the positive side I suppose XBox and GC can now get the same treatment. Since, obviously, they both have processors in them, and so we can see better prices for all consoles now and in the future. Although I suppose I shouldn't assume that. Because with the same unbelievably stupid people in charge of making this decision they'll probably come out with an equally stupid decision for an equally stupid reason. Like perhaps GC isn't a computer because... erm... its default colour isn't black, or something equally absurd.

 

[Rodéric]

If it's based on the CPU/GPU then the XBox is a computer for sure, and the NGC too (PowerPC is used in Mac).

But now the problem is rather, what's the definition of a console ?
Isn't a console a computer entertainment system ?

Since PS2, XBox and NGC are all systems made for gaming, why should they be anything else but consoles ?
Are other kind of software available (commerically) on them, like spreadsheet, word processing.... answer is no... So that's definetly a computer entertainment system, and so a console.

SONY should get hurt for using such lame tactics.

 

[Teasy]

But now the problem is rather, what's the definition of a console ?

Considering this comment in the ruling:

The judges agreed with Sony that the classification "should be carried out on the basis of the components of the item, and not its purpose."

The definition of a console would be something that could play games without the use of any kind of computer hardware components (processing units ect). So effectively an empty box that plays games through some form of magic perhaps?

A console is a computer that a manufacturer makes with the purpose of playing games, that's what makes it a console. So when they say that purpose should not be used to define a console they are effectively saying that consoles no longer exist. But the truley laughable thing is I don't think they actually realise that they're saying that!

 

[marconelly!]

The definition of a console would be something that could play games without the use of any kind of computer hardware components (processing units ect). So effectively an empty box that plays games through some form of magic perhaps?

I think that by 'components of the item' They also meant that YABasic software that is distributed with PS2 in Europe. That effectively doesmake it a 'computer' as you get to program the thing from the day you purchased it, just like any other computer.

Instead of claiming how Sony is pathetic, I wonder how can't you see that the law is pathetic, and this ruling in Sony's favor just proves how easy it is to reveal that.

 

[Vince]

Yes, excellent point Marc. Teasy, just maybe instead of instantly jumping on Sony like a typical E3 attendee on a boothbabe, you could wait to see exactly what this entails. In both cases, those who refrain end up looking a whole lot better.

 

[MrWibble]

I'm with Sony on this one... why should there be arbitrary taxes levied on something just because it's intended to play games rather than run a word-processor?

When they point out that you can play games on a PC, and you can word-process on a PS2, having one item taxed considerable more is daft.

And it's worse for the consumer, because the taxes just get passed on somewhere along the line.

I can't believe people are trying to paint Sony in a negative light because they challenged the law, exposed a blatant hypocrisy, and got a better deal for their customers.

I mean, sure they make money out of this... but its hardly something to condemn them for unless you're just trolling.

 

[marconelly!]

Anyways, Sony actually lost this, and the first news of them winning was some misinpretation. Still, the proof that the law was stupid to begin with, comes with the last paragraph:

http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/6898163.htm

Sony's challenge of European Playstation2 duties fails
Associated Press

BRUSSELS, Belgium - An appeals court Tuesday agreed with European Union officials that Sony's Playstation2 is a video game console and not a computer, undercutting the Japanese electronics giant's hopes for hefty rebates of customs duties.

Sony had argued the Playstation2 should be considered a computer - and thus eligible for a lower duty rate when imported into Europe - because of the chips inside and Playstation's ability to do some data processing.

But the Luxembourg-based Court of First Instance disagreed. "It is quite clear that it is intended mainly to be used to run video games," the court wrote in its decision.

Even so, the judges said they were technically forced to overturn the EU classification of Playstation2 because the European Commission, the EU's executive agency, erred in how it reached its decision. The Commission now must readopt the customs classification using the correct legal basis.

Originally Tuesday, a court spokesman had announced that the judges had entirely sided with Sony, potentially giving the company the chance to win millions of euros in customs refunds. Later, however, the spokesman, Chris Fretwell, said that announcement had been based "on a misinterpretation of the judgment by me for which I apologize profusely."

The EU customs regime is set to change anyway on Jan. 1, allowing computers and games consoles into the EU with zero tariff.

 

[Teasy]

marconelly!

Well when someone says components I think that usually means hardware. Especially since the article mentions that Sony's case hinges on PS2's processors (if that's true). Also in the ruling they say that a console should not be defined by its purpose but instead its components. Surely by purpose they mean software? (which would include any programing software). Not that any of this matters now of course considering what you posted above.

Instead of claiming how Sony is pathetic, I wonder how can't you see that the law is pathetic, and this ruling in Sony's favor just proves how easy it is to reveal that.

I didn't say that Sony themselves were pathetic. I said the case mentioned in the quote was pathetic.

Also from my first post:

it just shows how utterly stupid this ruling is and what a total lack of understanding the people who make the rules have!

why don't they get some people who actually know what a processor is to judge these sort of cases? Instead of senile old foggies that still think the lightbulb is a clever knew-fangled gadget...

Because with the same unbelievably stupid people in charge of making this decision they'll probably come out with an equally stupid decision for an equally stupid reason.

How can you act as if my whole post was bashing Sony instead of the ruling itself when it was actually the other way around?.. could you explain that? I only made one or two small comments about Sony and almost my entire post was bashing the ruling itself.

 

[Teasy]

Vince

Explain to me exactly how I am "jumping on Sony like a typical E3 attendee on a boothbabe"? I simply didn't do that.