Project Natal: MS Full Body 3D Motion Detection

And yes, obonicus, there's all the possibility that this call fall through if MS isn't dedicated enough, if MS can't get devs to properly support it, if a killer application can't be made for it, if the lag proves to be too much for anything but really casual games, or it's priced too high to be attractive.

But what I and others that are excited about is just the possibility of what this could bring.

Just like there's people excited about the possibility of what Nintendo's Motion Plus or PS3's wands could bring to the respective systems.

Perhaps someone like me is just willing to suspend disbelief a little more than others. But I'd (personally) rather read (from people that haven't used either system) about people speculating on what's possible from their controller of choice, rather than the constant negativity and nit picking.

Unfortunately, it appears I've been drawn into it also despite trying to avoid posting anything negative about other systems. Meh, sometimes a person just can't keep shut I guess.

Anyways, as always time will tell what happens. And hopefully each person remains excited about the possibilities their specific system is implementing without having to constantly be negative about other systems.

Regards,
SB

 

Where did I say that? What I'm saying is that journalists are yes-men who are almost entirely unwilling to ask difficult questions or respond negatively to a preview lest they not be invited to private showings again. What does that mean? I'll spell it out for you: don't take journalists' impressions as gospel. Yes, you'd think that'd be obvious by now, but yet here we are. We're looking at press going 'hey, it works' and going 'it works! they all say it works! where can I get one?!'

I suggest you read what I said before you go off on a long tirade. Did you read the part where I specifically say that I'm in no position to say that Natal can't accomplish what they claim?

And before you accuse me of cheerleading a system, show me being excited for any motion detection system. The only thing I've shown any interest in is a pointer system, which PSWand and the Wiimote have demonstrated.

 

Ive spoken about this a few times on these forums,
the lack of decent gaming journalism

yes part of the reason no doubt what u say obonicus
also Ive been listening on the radio recently to ppl debating the standards of investigating journalism in the print meadia + hows is slipping badly, research has been done (whilst I forget the exactly figure, it was >75%) of articles in major newspapers are basically regurgitated press releases from government departments,industry etc.
the main reason given, is lack of staff due to costcutting from the increased competition from online media.
this is just for general news, for gaming the competition from online media is far worse

personally I believe this is a sad state of affairs

I was listening to the PM of nz getting grilled last night (4minutes)

http://www.radionz.co.nz/__data/ass...handling_of_the_Richard_Worth_affair-m048.asx

this happens every day here, I know in the US etc the president doesnt have to withstand such questioning so this method might be shocking but personally I believe its great as it leads to a more transparent + honest system

 

The problem with the press reports is they use each thing for like 5 minutes. OK, it was fine for that period of time, but they don't think critically about whether they'd want to do that for a longer play session. They also mostly don't have the technical accumen to ask pertinent questions about fine grain accuracy, pointing solutions, how much is running on the camera processor versus the 360 processor, etc, etc, etc. No one even asks something obvious like, "what about the button problem? Sony showed a ton of great examples of why a button is good for games? You've just claimed buttons are bad as a premise without adequate justification." I have no doubt that when they go in to that room it works almost like magic for them. But a 5 minute controlled demo is not enough evidence of a game play revolution. Reporters at e3 are prone to breathless enthusiasm anyway, but it's pretty troubling how eager everyone has been to be snowed under by MS marketing in the case of Natal.

 

Bah, this is what happens when I start off with a reply to someone and the go off on a general tangent, none of that was targetted AT you. Although you do tend to be overly nitpicky. As do quite a few others.

Regards,
SB

 

I'm surprised by some of the comments trying to convince others that 1)what they are seeing in Project Natal 2) what they've seen done by 3DV's Z Cam and 3)the possiblities that this new mode of interaction has, simply can't and won't be done. Not to mention the hands on articles written about the system.

IMHO MS has taken a step in the right direction. I can't wait for them to nail down the bugs and realese this unit next year. Don't know if this has been posted. If so i apologize in advance.

http://venturebeat.com/2009/06/02/m...ribes-origins-of-project-natal-game-controls/

 

No. We just are realists.

 

In which case, the MS system has already shown more real world usage cases than the PS3 Wand + Eye combo.

In that it's actually useable in an actual game that has been released. And from all accounts accurate enough to sub for standard controller in most cases.

Regards,
SB

 

For all extents and purposes the waggle is just a slightly more accurate wiimote IMO.

 

waggle is though I wouldn't call it slightly, but there is also PS Eye.

 

Seriously the Playstation wand can do everything the wii-controllers can do and more, so lack of real world usage will not be a problem.

Driving without wheel may be fun for a while or may apply to kid games, the mario kart wheel has sold pretty well, but sixaxis stearing has never become really popular in the mature market. It´s fun to control the MCs in Motorstorm, but you get tired of it after a while. I also thought that waving hands overbuttons in the eye-toy games was tiring after a while when playing with the kids.

You may say sour grapes, but I think Yoshida has a point in this interview.

 

MS is expressing a concept which works and which, obviously, engineers have spent considerable time contemplating the questions you put forth here and coming up with solutions.

they will not put it on the market until it is usable for game modes that will SELL to the public. that is their goal after all. Not to outdo the Sony/nintendo announcements.

Also in the hands of many more game designers (they obviously have enough confidence to release the first SDKs), I'm sure in time all of your questions will be answered as real world solutions are released expressed as games that people will want to play.

 

Maybe it can do everything the Wii M+ does, or maybe it can't. Without being subjected to independent report, we don't know that. Could be that it only works well within a 3 feet invisible cube where the demo wand was, and anything outside won't track correctly. Too bad Sony didn't allow journalists to mess with it.

 

I think so far we only get leaks from beta testers months ago.

Since they use the same SDK partner as Wii, I wonder if developers can start to make prototype now using Wiimote + PS Eye. I believe we can already write apps to talk to the Wiimote on PC today, so getting it to talk to PS3 should not be a problem. The PS Eye SDK should also be available long ago.

EDIT: Why are we talking about Sony controller here ?

 

Worth pointing out that I've spoken to non-MS affiliated developers who've been able to test Natal at length in their own offices and they're as breathlessly enthusiastic about it as the E3 reporters.

Now to get one of them on the record...

 

I'll not deny that the technology is impressive and fascinating. I am, however, skeptical about its gaming applications. MS tells us this constitutes a revolution in gaming without really showing any reason for us to believe that's true.

 

While you're at it, I'm interested to know:
* Multi-player tracking
* Resolution and response time
* State of the 3D mesh + skeleton generation (How accurate and fast, boundary conditions/fail cases)

 

Eurogamer interview with project director:

 

What impact does it have in the input lag, that the camera device is doing some apparently pretty heavy calculations?