PowerPC Roadmap Turns to Consoles

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1616981,00.asp

PowerPC Roadmap Turns to Consoles
By Mark Hachman
June 25, 2004

IBM Corp.'s PowerPC roadmap has narrowed in recent months.

With IBM's sale of its embedded PowerPC 4XX family in April to Applied Micro Circuits Corp., analysts say the company is moving away from developing standard products entirely, chips used as storage and network controllers, to concentrate on developing custom solutions for a few key customers.


Those core applications include Apple Computer Inc.'s Macintosh computer; IBM's own blade servers; and a variety of next-generation video game consoles that may eventually evolve into more general-purpose computing devices.

Currently, IBM's PowerPC public roadmap comprises three product lines: the 9XX series, used within the Macintosh and IBM's JS20 blade servers, currently being revamped for the mobile and server markets; the 7XX series, spearheaded by the PowerPC 750GX for embedded applications; and a pair of cores available for licensing.

The real work is behind the scenes, however, where IBM is developing the "Cell" processor for future entertainment consoles sold by Sony Corp.; the processor used by the "Xenon," Microsoft Corp.'s next-generation Xbox; as well as the "Revolution," Nintendo Ltd.'s next-generation console. IBM has already shipped more than 10 million PowerPCs to Nintendo for use in the current GameCube, each a 485MHz derivative of the G3 called the "Gekko."

During 2003, the PowerPC's penetration into non-compute applications such as storage and network controllers totaled just under 47 million units, according to Semico Research Corp. of Phoenix. The total includes sales from IBM as well as Freescale Semiconductor, the other primary developer of the PowerPC architecture. Austin, Texas-based Freescale will spin off from Motorola Inc. later this year as an independent company focused on designing and selling semiconductors.

By comparison, ARM Ltd.'s embedded architecture sold 783 million units in 2003; MIPS Technologies Inc.'s MIPS architecture sold 126 million units. Sales of embedded X86 processors from Intel Corp. and other suppliers was under 19 million units, mostly into point-of-sale terminals and kiosks.

With the sale of the PowerPC 4XX series in April for $227 million in cash, IBM essentially exited the standard products market, concluded Linley Gwennap, principal analyst with The Linley Group in Mountain View, Calif.

"This sale is likely the final step in IBM's strategy of divesting from the standard-product business," Gwennap wrote in a note to the company's clients. "The company will now focus its resources on developing products for a few large customers (such as Sony, Apple and IBM's systems business) as well as its ASIC and foundry business. This strategy reduces the company's product-development risk. IBM will continue to offer a few products, such as the PowerPC 7xx family, to third parties that request them."

"The PowerPC in the communications infrastructure goes head-to-head with MIPS, and thus is hampered," said Semico analyst Tony Massimini. "IBM decided to follow different path, and get into video games…across the three major platforms. That's going to pump up the volume numbers for PowerPC going forward."

Instead, most of the true embedded work will be left to AMCC and to Freescale, which has yet to spell out its plans in the PowerPC space. The spinoff has announced a range of cores, including the e300 and e500, based on the PowerQICC cores for communications, and slated to scale beyond 1.5GHz; the e600, a G4-compatible symmetric-multiprocessing (SMP) chip expected to scale beyond 2GHz; and the e700, an unannounced 32-bit/64-bit microprocessor that should scale to 3GHz and beyond.

That doesn't mean that IBM's PowerPC architecture won't compete in the embedded space.

"I think you'll see the PowerPC 970FX in a much wider range of applications, following the embedded market," said Jesse Stein, PowerPC marketing programs manager at IBM. "While frequency is a concern…first and foremost is power."

In addition, IBM will continue to market the 7XX series of processors, known more commonly as the basis for the Apple G3 line. The PowerPC 750GX builds upon the older PowerPC 750FX, adding a full-speed, 1MB Level 2 cache and the ability to run at 1.1GHz. IBM will still market solution in the 4XX series, but as customizable, system-on-a-chip solutions, Stein said.


IBM's real work is with its gaming-platform customers, including Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo. Sony, Toshiba and IBM are developing the "Cell" processor, a modular design whose specifications are unknown. However, IBM engineers will apparently disclose more details about the chip at a conference in Vail, Colo., sponsored by the Institute for Electrical and Electronics Engineers.

According to a technology white paper supposedly authored by Pete Isensee of the Microsoft Xbox Technology Group that was making the rounds of game sites Wednesday, the "Xenon" Xbox 2 will use three 3.5GHz PowerPC custom cores, each with 64KB of Level 1 cache and a shared 1MB of Level 2 cache. The white paper's authenticity could not be confirmed.


However, some of the early comments by other IBM customers indicate that clock speed will not drive the designs. In both the Sony and Nintendo designs, IBM will work with graphics-chip maker ATI Technologies Inc., Thornhill, Ontario, to generate graphics.


"I suppose I could give you a list of our technical specs, but I won't for a simple reason: They really don't matter," said Satoru Iwata, Nintendo's president, during a press conference at the Electronic Entertainment Expo show in Los Angeles in May discussing the company's next-generation console, which would deliver an "unprecedented play experience". "The time when horsepower alone made an important difference is over."


very interesting article don't you think? even if it's not telling us much that is new. above all, it seems PowerPC has wiped MIPs and Intel out of the picture as far as consoles. I think this is pretty huge for IBM and PowerPC.

I've always liked PowerPC since it was the CPU behind the 3DO's M2, Sega's Model 3 and Nintendo's Gamecube.

I can't wait to learn further details on the PowerPC implimentations in PS3, Xenon and Revolution.
 
One cpu i would like to learn more of is the SH4 and the following cpu´s in
that serie, SH5/6 and so on, anyone that knows a little more of that then me?
 
well the Hitachi SH4 was developed mainly at Sega's request in 1995 for a high floating point performance CPU for its next generation console. by 1998, the fp performance of SH4 was about 4 times that of the leading consumer Intel CPU and probably 2x the fp performance of MIPs or PowerPC.

I don't know anything about the SH5 which is in use now. the next generation SH6 and SH7 I know nothing about either.
 
In both the Sony and Nintendo designs, IBM will work with graphics-chip maker ATI Technologies Inc., Thornhill, Ontario, to generate graphics.
ATI is making the graphics part also on PS3 :oops:
That could be a mistake on the article, I think it was supposed to be MS and Nintendo, not Sony and Nintendo.
 
When did journalism lose the investigative part and replaced it with reading bad internet rumors? Between ATI, the XBox whitepapers and the supposed Vail Conference, this article reaks of substandard journalism.
 
It´s pretty "scary" that the so called journalism goes undetected to million´s of people and only a small fraction "forum-member´s" at sites like this etz that can make out the wrong´s in the text.
 
Quote:
In both the Sony and Nintendo designs, IBM will work with graphics-chip maker ATI Technologies Inc., Thornhill, Ontario, to generate graphics.

ATI is making the graphics part also on PS3
That could be a mistake on the article, I think it was supposed to be MS and Nintendo, not Sony and Nintendo.

nice catch.

I obviously missed that. I probably read it as IBM working with ATI to generate graphics, and assumed they meant on the Xenon and Revolution.
 
rabidrabbit said:
In both the Sony and Nintendo designs, IBM will work with graphics-chip maker ATI Technologies Inc., Thornhill, Ontario, to generate graphics.
ATI is making the graphics part also on PS3 :oops:
That could be a mistake on the article, I think it was supposed to be MS and Nintendo, not Sony and Nintendo.
:oops:
 
to be clear, I highly doubt ATI is making the graphics for PS3. but I would not put it past the realm of possibility. ATI and Nvidia both have a small-ish chance to contribute something to the to Sony-designed GPU for PS3. this has been known for over a year now. most likely, the only contribution ATI would be making, is the shading researched that is being funded by ATI, Nvidia, Sony and I think Microsoft or IBM. that research will be be applied to PS3 GPU as well as Xenon and Revolution GPUs, in all likelyhood. correct me if I'm wrong on that, okay.
 
Strange how apple cpus often wind up in consoles. I guess they're cheap to make, low power, and low heat.

BTW, what console used mips? Sega favored Hitachi for their last few consoles, nintendo and sony have used sgi, and microsoft used intel.

by 1998, the fp performance of SH4 was about 4 times that of the leading consumer Intel CPU

Oh come on, wouldn't that make it basically equal to the xcpu, if not superior? 300mhz pentium 2s existed in 1998, and possibly higher. If we're talking beginning of 1998, I think 250mhz was out by then, if not then 200mhz.(but dreamcast came out end of 1998)
 
BTW, what console used mips? Sega favored Hitachi for their last few consoles, nintendo and sony have used sgi, and microsoft used intel.

Huh, WTF? There is no "SGI" processor, SGI workstations (at least the IRIX ones) used MIPS, hence the N64, PSOne, and PS2 have used MIPS...

Oh come on, wouldn't that make it basically equal to the xcpu, if not superior? 300mhz pentium 2s existed in 1998, and possibly higher. If we're talking beginning of 1998, I think 250mhz was out by then, if not then 200mhz.(but dreamcast came out end of 1998

In terms of pure theoretical floating point performance, yes... However there's more to CPU's than theoretical floating point performance, A LOT more...
 
archie4oz said:
BTW, what console used mips? Sega favored Hitachi for their last few consoles, nintendo and sony have used sgi, and microsoft used intel.

Huh, WTF? There is no "SGI" processor, SGI workstations (at least the IRIX ones) used MIPS, hence the N64, PSOne, and PS2 have used MIPS...

I should point out that the primary reason for Mips getting those contracts had nothing to do with performance. At the time it was the only reasonably competitive processor that you could buy the layout for, which meant you could integrate other functionality onto the die.
 
By all means I wasn't implying that SGI *was* the reason... I'm all too aware of the benefits of MIPS designs as far as available cores, modularity, performance, and basic ease of licensing (and the relative paucity of other comparable embedded designs)... The only other way I think one would go would've been Motorola's PowerPC designs (although it probably would not have worked for Sony)...
 
archie4oz said:
By all means I wasn't implying that SGI *was* the reason... I'm all too aware of the benefits of MIPS designs as far as available cores, modularity, performance, and basic ease of licensing (and the relative paucity of other comparable embedded designs)... The only other way I think one would go would've been Motorola's PowerPC designs (although it probably would not have worked for Sony)...

Why wouldn't it work for sony?
 
Huh, WTF? There is no "SGI" processor, SGI workstations (at least the IRIX ones) used MIPS, hence the N64, PSOne, and PS2 have used MIPS...

well that is true, SGI never made their own CPUs, their CPU division or company, MIPS, did. but the graphics processors, SGI made them. if I have this right, in the workstation and visualization space MIPS did the CPUs, SGI did the custom graphics, or got outside parts (FPUs). I think it worked the same with the Nintendo 64. MIPS did the CPU, SGI did the RCP graphics processor.
 
Back
Top