Possible Gran Turismo 4 rival?

[CIN]

Have you ever raced a reasonably quick modified sports car on a circuit in real life? I have and F355 challenge does a much better job at resembling that exoerience than GT3.

Have you played GT4? How does it compare? GT4 is quite a step up from GT3, especially with the wheel (I never use a controller). Can you elaborate on what exactly is more authentic in F355 compared to GT3? Also are you comparing the arcade F355 or the DC version (with steering wheel or gamepad)?

No I have not played it. I was comparing to GT3. If like people are saying GT4 is a nice step up in handling I will be very very happy

I play F355 on DC with steering wheel(very easy to play actually)

 

[CIN]

well, to be fair, the said the same back when GT3 came out too. :? But I have actually played GT4 (prologue) and it's worlds above GT3 in regards to handling. So, yeah, definately have very high hopes! 8)

Great!!! Did they leave ABS on? Also how about the exhaust sound? Is it still kind of too muffled?

 

[-tkf-]

....

Did you ever try and play with the simulation tires? .. scary..

I agree on the ABS part, i would prefer if it could be disabled.. maybe in GT4?

 

[Phil]

Can't comment on the sound unfortunately, the place where I played it was quite loud and crowded. Not sure about the ABS - the first thing one is damned to notice is the difference in handling though. The cars seem to have more weight to them, which means more breaking and steering than before. It was actually quite difficult to get into at first - the new 900° wheel made a huge difference too. It would be interesting to see how it compares to F355 now.

BTW; I've only played the arcade version and that, also thanks to clutch and everything is a lot more realistic. That was a while though.

EDIT: stupid typos.

 

[LogisticX]

After many hours of experience with F355 (although I never got the wheel, something I regret, but very hard to find), I've come to the conclusion that the only thing the game accurately portrays is the inherent difficulty that lies in driving high powered machines through a course without flying off the track.

It seems that as a player, the game models the acceleration, deceleration and handling of the car very well, but all the other mechanics are missing.

For instance, racer AI is more predictable than any other game. Given a track, I can't tell you how many times EXACT circumstances fell in to place where I'd feel like I was playing the same race I had before. The same cars were overtaken on the same points on the same lap, and their behaviours became exceedingly predictable with that. I also don't appreciate how terribly the game rewards the computer for bumping into YOU while you're having a good race. I can't tell you how many times I was blindsided by stupid AI and had to pay the price while the computer happily went on its way.


I was as excited as the next guy for F355 challenge when I heard it was making its way to the Dreamcast, I picked it up day of release, and although it took me awhile, I've realized the game in actuality, in my opinion, is severely lacking many important mechanics.

 

[-tkf-]

E3 interview regarding GT4, looks like the Nuerburgring made it

http://www.excite.co.jp/world/engli...0040514/gt4_2.htm&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=3

Translation:

The opportunity to interview independently Mr. Kazunori Yamauchi who is the producer of "GURANTSURISUMO" series by the polyphony digital president was obtained after the end of the exhibition of "GURANTSURISUMO 4 (following, GT4)" which Sony Computer Entertainment held. If it is reading in accordance with the presentation by the said person who carried in the separate paragraph thing and merely kicks, it will be thought that an understanding of various new elements which joined GT4 this time deepens.

GameWatch (following, G) : Please let me know the cause of the "photograph mode" development announced this time.

Kazunori Yamauchi producer (following, Mr. Yamauchi) : In fact, this was aimed at about three years before. It becomes, when GT3 (GURANTSURISUMO 3) is completed. Since GURANTSURISUMO data was made with some exaggerated spec. from the first, when carrying out the rendering of higher resolution, it turns out that a beautiful picture comes out. Since GURANTSURISUMO is the game which draws every [ 1/] 60 seconds (rendering), unless a rendering surely finishes in its 1 / 60 seconds, it is not arranged. That is, if its 1 / 60 seconds are extended at 1 second, it will be said that a 60 times more beautiful picture can be made. Of course, the principle was found.
And since it also turned out that potential is in data, I regarded it as when it is doing all the time (GURANTSURISUMO).
　
It means that the HAIREZO picture which exists functionally in polyphony digital (equipments) from before, for example, provides for you (the object for public relations and for space printing) was made using the form in photograph mode. It will be called the mode which it carried through process "a system side should also be refined to move also by the small hardware and small GT4 which are called that PlayStatin 2 at last, and also attach a user interface."

G : Can specification of the position of a light source or a light source be performed at the time of photography in photograph mode?

Mr. Yamauchi : I think that it is made to want to make it. For example, it is dark in Brooklyn in New York which it showed (since it is called a night view). (with presentation) such time -- here -- already -- I may wish to burn the light of one light and two lights Therefore, I think that it is made to want to be also able to perform such setup someday.

G : Is change of the weather etc. included in such a design?

Mr. Yamauchi : There is no change of the weather. I hear that it is set as the best time according to each scene.

G : It was announced quite officially from before that GT4 is "on-line correspondence." However, that the language .... came out from Mr. Yamauchi on-line almost concretely in addition clearly for the first time in that there was no talk will call it circulation between the users of the data in this photograph mode, and a share. this -- too -- a car -- is it what may be considered [ being called making a favorite user's community ]?

Mr. Yamauchi : I am GURANTSURISUMO and what it is considered that is the most important is not only a mere race. It has clarified that it is most important to make the community in which a car lover gathers. Therefore, is wanting to prize a thing called the function of communication the target clearly made uncanny?

G : Is the other function considered by the portion dealing with on-line?

Mr. Yamauchi : There is [ much ] function for making a user community. Although it thinks that I will realize many them, I think that it is good exactly that GT4 corresponds to on-line to the extent that it understands, after having GT4 bought for users. It is [ such a ] reasonable that I am made not to do the on-line talk as much as possible until now. I think that I am good about [ which I have notice, "such things will also be made if you buy it!" ].
Is the evolution in GT4 from GT3 a thing only with it exactly good [ the meaning of letting you know worth of GT4 of HONTO clearly ] since evolution terrible as for extracting the function of on-line is carried out?

G : or it calls it the cause to record Nuerburgring -- a turning point -- was there any みたいな thing?

Mr. Yamauchi : It is the reason which covered by putting up for the night about one month because "it will cover for the time being." and although it does not understand whether enter or not, it began to make from beginning to make (a course -- the inside of a memory) Then, the designer who makes data did his best and the programmer who vacated the memory for it also did his best. As it thought "or or it is .... whether it will enter if it carries out" as a result of such efforts, it will enter somehow. If it does, it can do, and will rub and be peevish (smile).
　
The full length (course) of 6km or more had recognition of being quite severe, on an old GURANTSURISUMO experience. Still, it is less than 6km, and all old courses are quite [ in memory ] severe situations, and they have been made, fighting with a risk of a memory always overflowing. therefore -- although it thought that it would be impossible absolutely in 20.8 etc.km of Nuerburgring etc. -- rather -- there -- doing one's best .... if it does for obtaining with ほん, it can do -- rubbing -- peevish (smile) .
　
About the road surface, the hand still is not extracted truly. Since it has reappeared more finely about a road surface than other courses, I think that it is one of the ability of me to be [ the ] proud also of the hit about Nuerburgring (course inclusion).

G : Although the "dream" was attained by inclusion of Nuerburgring, the following "dream" is prepared.

Mr. Yamauchi : If it is the dream of the level of not putting in in which a course is put in, although it is very delightful that Nuerburgring enters, probably, the method of evolving a game is without limit in others. Does it have room for improvement (smile)?

G : I think that the game that the driver is reproduced perfectly is also the first as a drive game of PS2.

Mr. Yamauchi : Although said also in the presentation, it is not having done, since that was required. It is the reason which had people's movement simulation as an object of my interest. Although the front began this research for about three years, it is the time when motion capture was used rapidly (in various games). I think whether having started, when there is no race game which moves a car in a physical simulation also about GURANTSURISUMO knows. It is the same approach also about a human body.
If it is continuing a number of years even if it does not become a thing now, there is that it will become what was carried out perfectly, and it is doing FIJIKKUSU about a human body perfectly, also including [ only not making a race game in the future and ] the possibility.
　
Although I have burdened myself with 縛り of not using motion capture, it is for there to be a place it is thought that is becoming honest in " etc. after GT4 prologue" (smile), and to be said that it will be continued since this is interesting. Although it could show you only in the form limited very much like expression of the man of the convertible in a race game now, after I thought that I was technology with the future bigger possibility, in order to investigate the へん, it dared have clarified. Although it is a place fine in fact, in fact, the driver in a car with a roof is also moving secretly now (smile). This is also one of the evolution after a prologue.
It is doing various things in the place which is not visible.

G : When the buyer of the prologue version purchases GT4, is there any portion which is added?

Mr. Yamauchi : Although it is one example, I regard the clear data of a license examination of a prologue as my enabling it to carry over to GT4. It means saying that a certain examination is exempted.

G : Thank you.

Pics:

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20040514/gt4_2_02.jpg
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20040514/gt4_2_06.jpg
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20040514/gt4_2_07.jpg
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20040514/gt4_2_08.jpg
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20040514/gt4_2_03.jpg
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20040514/gt4_2_04.jpg
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20040514/gt4_2_05.jpg

 

[CIN]

....

Did you ever try and play with the simulation tires? .. scary..

I agree on the ABS part, i would prefer if it could be disabled.. maybe in GT4?

Yeah and in low powered cars it is fun but man they dont have any grip at all.

 

[CIN]

Can't comment on the sound unfortunately, the place where I played it was quite lowed. Not sure about the ABS - the first thing one is damned to notice is the difference in handling though. The cars seem to have more weight to them, which means more breaking and steering than before. It was actually quite difficult to get into at first - the new 900° wheel made a huge difference too. It would be interesting to see how it compares to F355 now.

BTW; I've only played the arcade version and that, also thanks to clutch and everything is a lot more realistic. That was a while though.

Great!! Thanks for the impressions

 

[Natoma]

Just give me a game that handles like Extreme G3 and it's got my money. I hate "floaty" racers like RR and NFS. Extreme G3, Wipeout/Wipeout II. Those are where the money is at.

 

[CIN]

After many hours of experience with F355 (although I never got the wheel, something I regret, but very hard to find), I've come to the conclusion that the only thing the game accurately portrays is the inherent difficulty that lies in driving high powered machines through a course without flying off the track.

It seems that as a player, the game models the acceleration, deceleration and handling of the car very well, but all the other mechanics are missing.

For instance, racer AI is more predictable than any other game. Given a track, I can't tell you how many times EXACT circumstances fell in to place where I'd feel like I was playing the same race I had before. The same cars were overtaken on the same points on the same lap, and their behaviours became exceedingly predictable with that. I also don't appreciate how terribly the game rewards the computer for bumping into YOU while you're having a good race. I can't tell you how many times I was blindsided by stupid AI and had to pay the price while the computer happily went on its way.


I was as excited as the next guy for F355 challenge when I heard it was making its way to the Dreamcast, I picked it up day of release, and although it took me awhile, I've realized the game in actuality, in my opinion, is severely lacking many important mechanics.

AI is not the best but when you are good the AI is a non issue since you will not be playing against it anyway. I played against the times posted on the net and in 2 player mode especially in the arcade.

And like you wrote the most important think is "the game models the acceleration, deceleration and handling of the car very well"

If you have that you have a superb racing game.
Sure F355 had very few tuning options just one car etc etc... but acc/dec and handling was very very nice.

Now how about a new version with the power of the new consoles with improved AI and collision models? Would be a dream for me

 

[CIN]

E3 interview regarding GT4, looks like the Nuerburgring made it

Nice. Nurburgring is a very welcome addition IMO especially the long one

 

[CIN]

Just give me a game that handles like Extreme G3 and it's got my money. I hate "floaty" racers like RR and NFS. Extreme G3, Wipeout/Wipeout II. Those are where the money is at.

Wipeout 2097 was the best one. I really like it and it still gets some playtime. They should remake it with 60fps updated gfx and the same handling which was awesome and felt very floaty which was good for this type of racer

 

[Sindre]

http://www.playstation.jp/scej/title/gt4/

Take a look at the realistic motioncaptured driver in the open old car in this E3 trailer

 

[DeathKnight]

You do realize the thread title isn't "Post GT4 info, screens, and videos here". The thread's actually about Forza Motorsport and it's been severely hijacked (not suprising though since most threads go waaay off topic here).

 

[phat]

Have you ever raced a reasonably quick modified sports car on a circuit in real life? I have and F355 challenge does a much better job at resembling that exoerience than GT3.

GT has not changed much since GT1

I don't know what you mean by a "reasonably quick modified sports car", but I take my 330i to the race track from time to time.

Even GT1 had a more sophisticated handling model than F355.

F355 is modeled with only rudimentary physics and a lot of heuristics to make it perform according to paper performance specs. So, it might get the 0-60 time right, but things that aren't on the paper specs, like the way the suspension moves, or how the car lurches and leans (even if ever so slightly), are not accounted for and the motion around the track just feels fake.

The GT series models car handling from physics first principles far removed from the paper times. As a result, it doesn't always get things like lap times exactly like they should be in real life, but the handling of the car is much more nuanced and consistent with our intuition with how things behave in the real world.

 

[CIN]

Reasonably fast sports car for me would be a car with a power to weight ratio close to 4.5kg/hp or better

BTW. I agree with you that GT has maybe better physics modelling but F355 definately has a much better fell to it and for me that is what counts.

As for the suspension model. Have you ever tried to use soft suspensions on F355 challange? If that is not body roll that you see I dont know how to explain it. Also if you pay attention in F355 wehn you brake the car nose dives(depending on how hart the springs/shocks are)when you acellerate you can also see the weight being shifted backwards and even when you change gear you can see the car shifting weight. If you have it on very hard suspension it is reduced a lot(like in real life). You can also see this in the replay and in the gameplay it does effect the handling on the car in a very realistic way

I like both games but for different reasons

 

[sir doris]

power to weight ratio close to 4.5kg/hp

Wouldn't that be a weight to power ratio?

Also you can turn off ABS in GT3 - arcade and sim mode.

 

[CIN]

power to weight ratio close to 4.5kg/hp

Wouldn't that be a weight to power ratio?

Also you can turn off ABS in GT3 - arcade and sim mode.

Yeah you are right

I dont know why but every one refers to it as power to weight ratio then we write kg/hp.

I think a 220bhp/ton would be the correct way to do it then