Polygons, voxels, SDFs... what will our geometry be made of in the future?

Discussion in 'Rendering Technology and APIs' started by eloyc, Mar 18, 2017.

  1. psurge

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    That’s Spanish for inertia. I interpreted it to mean that polygonal techniques have a huge amount of practitioners and tooling built up around them, and most people will improve or iterate on something they know before switching to something relatively unknown and unproven.
     
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  2. eloyc

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    Yes, I know the meaning of the word, but I thought he maybe was referring to the name of a graphic engine which works with SDFs, or the name of a game built around it, or the name of a developer studio that is currently working on that... :-D
     
  3. milk

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    Precisely. Only it wasnt spanish, but portuguese, unintentionally. I was a bit drunk...
     
  4. eloyc

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    Well, the word is the same in both languages, then.

    BTW, I didn't know that milk could get you drunk.
     
  5. milk

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    Its called white russian.
     
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  6. idsn6

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  7. Shifty Geezer

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    I don't think that's voxels. Here's a demo from two years ago basiclaly showing the same thing -


    The voxels are dynamically scaled, and you see them rotate on the wheels as well as move around the scene less than one voxel at a time. I think they're using a different representation such as SDF and layering a voxelised visualisation on top.
     
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  8. DavidGraham

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    ًWhy does it look low res and wobbly like that?
     
  9. milk

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    What's keeping a voxel implementation to have multiple volumes, one for each individual moving part, just like they do with SDFs?
     
  10. Shifty Geezer

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    Low res? They can draw the voxels at whatever resolution, but there'll be limits on memory and whatnot as you zoom in.
    Because you then break your voxel data structure which is super-optimised to allow fast drawing, in theory. Let's say the wheel is in its own voxel space, so it can rotate. And then the car is, so it can move freely and doesn't have to be grid aligned. And the leaves on a tree, and each rock...you end up with something that isn't a voxel representation of the world, and how do you accelerate the search structures with everything broken down into their own small spaces? The easiest, best way is to represent that space with a different form, like SDF, and then voxelise. Which would look exactly like they're doing here.

    Notice their animation isn't combined with their 'infinite detail' demo. Why haven't they got an 'infitinite detail' scene and be animating that? A car in 'infinite detail', scanned in from a real life model, instead of something that looks like a game model? From a first demo, sure. Two years after the car and destruction was shown, they haven't added that to their 'future of graphics' hyping demos?
     
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  11. eloyc

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    Their 'infinite detail' demo? What demo? Are you sure you're not mistaking them for Euclideon, with their 'unlimited detail' stuff?

    Another question: now SDFs seem to be getting a lot of interest, do you think this non-polygonal solution with make people forget about voxels for geometry? It seems better.
     
  12. milk

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    Yes, having a different vixel volume for each moving part is not very efficient for highly dynamic scenes, thats why they have few dynamic objects in that demo. If you used SDF you'd still be doing the same thing. You'd be tracing against multiple volumes, they just encode the opacity info as distance to hit instead of binary solid/nonsolid. Either these volumes are full 3d textures (Unreal 4) or just analytical shapes (Dreams, Claybook).

    This doesn't show infinite detail because i5 is not from that company. This is automontage, another, less hypie engine, which has been around for many years already.

    EDIT: actually, Clayworld does stamp the many volumes into one big volume before tracing, more in line with what you described, shifty. Dreams also does something similar. But unreal engine's SDF AO, Soft shadows and the in-engine visualization of the SDF representation, all trace the many volumes directly.
     
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  13. Shifty Geezer

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    Indeed I am. It was the 'the future is volumetric' line, and the lack of visible progress (same demo content from two years earlier). that said, the show reel did incorporate realtime voxelised objects (the people) which is something. That'd be good for VR communications.
    Yes. Voxels are a brute-force solution to volume representation. Representing volumes in a arbitrary form allows conversion to a visual 2D representation however you want, such as traced solids or Dreams' splats or sampling regular-grid voxels.
     
    #73 Shifty Geezer, Apr 12, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
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  14. milk

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    Savage!
     
  15. idsn6

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    #75 idsn6, May 9, 2018
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  16. milk

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    This is what the home page information on their website says:


    atomontage.com
     
  17. eloyc

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  18. idsn6

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  19. chris1515

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    Interesting they talk about Alex Evans and Media Molecule...
     
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  20. cheapchips

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    Looks like they have a nice partnership for delivering a product now, after years of demos.
     
    #80 cheapchips, Oct 5, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
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