Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release Holiday 2020]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by BRiT, Mar 17, 2020.

  1. fehu

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    I've watched the new digital foundry video and even they are confused and vague on the explanation.
    My biggest curiosity is if sony is using plain amd's technology to reach that speed almost constantly, why isn't ms using it too to go near 2GHz?
    In particular, taking into consideration the humongous cooling system.
    By some declaration, it looks like ms know in advance ps5's details.
     
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  2. iroboto

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    They can't, they fixed their clocks. Which means all cores are given the same power profile. There might be some sharing between cores, but not sharing in a way to increase frequency, but to ensure TDP is contained. You also need to set a lower clock rate to ensure under all loads that they can meet the given performance target.
     
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  3. disco_

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    Remember how MS specified fixed clocks a day or 2 before sony mentioned variable clocks?
     
  4. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    It means they learned it from rehearsal leaks, or the recording leaks, since it wasn't live it was prerecorded.
     
  5. Shifty Geezer

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    Every chip? How many chips, such as mobile SOCs, are advertised as their 'base clocks' and also their throttled clocks? Does Apple announce the throttling clock speeds of its processors? What speed is an A11 really? 2.39 GHz, how often? For how long? Under what workloads? What speed does it clock when heavy vector maths is being used?...
     
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  6. Shifty Geezer

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    It had better, or Sony's engineering disaster will be complete!
     
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  7. disco_

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    That's not how conspiracy theories work.
     
  8. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    Benchmarks of games reveal that there is no game that uses 100% of CPU and GPU at the same time. It's almost inconceivable for a perfect engine powering a game consisting of perfect placement of asset by level design resulting in the CPU using 99%+ of it's ability and feeding the GPU to 99%+ of its utilisation. PS5's appears design is predicated on the sad fact that there is always something not fast enough, beit CPU or GPU. If you can get close, you can tip it this way or that way.

    The benchmarks on GPU utilization running games in DF's last videos for PS5 videos show this to be the case.
     
    #1128 DSoup, Apr 2, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
  9. fehu

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    As I understand it, on ps5 it's (let's say) 2GHz fixed clock with turbo always on.
    In the worst case they will brush 2GHz almost all the time, but when there's room to go over.

    Really. SeriesX heatsink is huge, I don't think that sony can significantly one up that amount of copper and aluminum to easily manage the thermal output of what surely is an overvolted gpu.
    So why the discrepancy?
    Does a zen at 3.8Ghz need way more power than one at 3.5GHz?
    Are they using different rdna architectures with different thermal properties?

    There's just something missing (at least to me).
    Or Cerny kept for him some important detail, or it can't work as suggested.
     
  10. iroboto

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    sorry, just CPUs and GPUs then ;)
     
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  11. fehu

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    Ok, I'm very fine on this and I'm not contesting it.
    Where I get lost in the narration is the passage "and only sony noticed this, so no other had the idea of designing the system taking it in consideration".
     
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  12. iroboto

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    or they have a good competitive intelligence group with insider leaks
     
  13. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    That would be industrial espionage.
     
  14. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
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    It means they learned about that decision at least 12 months ago.
     
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  15. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    Who is saying only Sony noticed this? :???:
     
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  16. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    :runaway:
     
  17. PSman1700

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    No idea, but that would be a rather large gap, it probably hovers around 2Ghz when things get crunchy in there, 1.7ghz seems too low.

    What strikes me as strange is that he/they never tested actual workloads on that machine? They must have gotten some tests done on what an ideal or non-ideal situation is for the boosts?

    Depends on the console/cooling design, which we haven't seen yet. Sony seem to have invested more in the cooling this time (forced or not), so things should be better.

    You most likely want higher CPU clocks then, the XSX's 3.8ghz mode seems perfect for something like that.

    I understand what you mean, but during that era we had totally different hardware (PS2/GC/XB), now they are basically the same, one narrow, one wide. But the architecture is the same for the most.

    They could, probably using the same tech (smartshift), but then they couldnt say 'we gurantee consistent performance' in their unveil video with DF. They could have boasted with something like 13.5TF in ideal situations, but i think their performance lead was enough.

    That's the thing, we have no idea what games to expect. The PS2 gave me the best console library ever, expected the next PS to equal atleast that, then the PS3 happened. PS4 did better then PS3. Now we have to see with PS5, but exclusivity is not as much a thing as say the PS2 era. More and more land on PC too. I would wait and see what happens this holiday. That's generally the best thing, wait and see what happens :p

    They where sure aware of Sony having variable clocks, and knew they had the advantage there, and used it as PR. In the same vein they boasted about VRS.

    I don't think the downclock can only happen when both are maxed though, a GPU, in special at such high clocks, draws much and much more then the CPU. At non-ideal workloads (describes it best i think?), the CPU might be downclocked to give the GPU more power to maintain the max performance target of 2.23ghz.
     
  18. iroboto

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    Smart shift wouldn't be enough. PS5's solution is bespoke. You have to go all in or not.
     
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  19. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
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    So all in most of the time?
     
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  20. PSman1700

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    Agree, smart shift is probably the foundation of the tech though.
     
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