PGR 3 - Pictures and Framebuffer Discussion

one said:
FWIW, Xenos has been available since June IIRC.
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they (M$) say this bullshit at E3, but they can't do this and start to give some final (not with clock-final) dev kits at the end of august only to a little group of developer, and in september the others devs :rolleyes:
 
pipo said:
You must have pretty good eyes I guess.
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LOL :LOL:
cybernetic fraps eye at your service
I say 1057x601 or maybe 1284x735

bzz bzz (strange rumors from my new bionic eyes... frps certified)

"Guru Meditation at $Dff345F3"
 
Are you guys saying you can't see well enough to be able to look at a game and get a basic idea of what resolution it is running at? I mean surely you can tell the difference between a game running at 800x600 or 1024x768, right? I can put together some pics to illustrate the difference if you like, but I can assure you that the difference should be pretty obvious to anyone who isn't legaly blind.
 
I have a question, would the demo kits look upscaled anyway because the native res of the tv is 1366*768

and has there been any offical word of what res these games are running
 
The two displays I saw both used a samsung 940MW which is a 1440x900 monitor, so everything was upscaled at the display reguardless of what it was being rendered at on the 360. That doesn't change the fact that the CoD2 demo was very obviously not rendered at 1280x720, and after playing though the game on my PC at 1064x600 a bit I'm pretty sure I was being far too generous when I said 1064x600 at best.
 
Kyleb, it also depends a lot on where you see the demo.. I first saw it in a Walmart couple of days ago. It was not looking good. I was actually quite suprised as I expected it to look at least as good as the game running on a middle-range PC. This weekend, I saw it again at BestBuy on MS's own kiosk. What a difference... It looks crisper, beautiful, much better looking than the one at Walmart (+ no frame rate issues at all.. silk smooth on the entire level).
 
About Bizarre forum:

ALLAN M.
Site Admin

PGR3 is a launch title (Hurrah!)

So if you are lucky enough to get an Xbox 360 and PGR3 come launch day you can answer this question for yourselves in a matter of weeks!

There are certain things to do with a games development that we don’t comment on, like Microsoft, Apple and so on we “Don’t comment on rumoursâ€￾ so those of you that need answers to every rumour will be asking in vain.

If we can answer your questions we will (NDA permitting!)
Alan
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And a new member(1st post) answer him :

This query should be redirected at Microsoft, as Mr. Alan has indicated NDAs prevent him from divulging such information.

As I read the progression of these posts, I speculated, as well as others, that this was indeed the case. However, for those who tend to read between the lines, the important piece here is what Mr. Alan did not say.

With all due respect to Mr. Alan, my opinion is that if the internal rendering was @ 1280 X 720, he would be able and willing to state this. Would an NDA prevent him from supporting Microsoft's ethos of a 720P minimum HD resolution? I think not. However, if the internal resolution was below this "so-called standard", he could not comment, as this would have all sorts of implications as to Microsoft's HD requirements.

What's interesting here, is that I think we've all learned that Microsoft's 720P minimum requirement is an OUTPUT standard, NOT a rendering requirement.

***720P DISPLAY RESOLUTION***

I've looked closely at Microsoft's rhetoric regarding HD, and I have not once read anything about an internal rendering requirement; only HD requirements, which can now be read as "HD display requirements".
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http://www.bizarreonline.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8837&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=195
 
silhouette said:
Kyleb, it also depends a lot on where you see the demo.. I first saw it in a Walmart couple of days ago. It was not looking good. I was actually quite suprised as I expected it to look at least as good as the game running on a middle-range PC. This weekend, I saw it again at BestBuy on MS's own kiosk. What a difference... It looks crisper, beautiful, much better looking than the one at Walmart (+ no frame rate issues at all.. silk smooth on the entire level).
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I saw it at Target first and that was running 480i and looked like crap mostly because that Samsung LCD monitor has some of the worst deinterlacing I have ever seen. However, the guys at my local EB know what they were doing at that was set up right. Kameo was obviously rendered at 1280x720 and CoD2 was obviously not. Also, what is your tolerance for framerate? I'm not put off by 30fps but I can defiantly tell the difference between that and higher, and the game was clearly dropping down to around 30fps in heavy action with lots of smoke.
 
kyleb said:
I saw it at Target first and that was running 480i and looked like crap mostly because that Samsung LCD monitor has some of the worst deinterlacing I have ever seen. However, the guys at my local EB know what they were doing at that was set up right. Kameo was obviously rendered at 1280x720 and CoD2 was obviously not. Also, what is your tolerance for framerate? I'm not put off by 30fps but I can defiantly tell the difference between that and higher, and the game was clearly dropping down to around 30fps in heavy action with lots of smoke.
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Constant 30 fps - I am happy.. However, I have to admit that there was never much smoke on the screen when I saw the kid playing the whole level. So, I cannot comment on frame-rate for smoke on screen.. But, I will take your word :)
 
kyleb said:
The two displays I saw both used a samsung 940MW which is a 1440x900 monitor, so everything was upscaled at the display reguardless of what it was being rendered at on the 360. That doesn't change the fact that the CoD2 demo was very obviously not rendered at 1280x720, and after playing though the game on my PC at 1064x600 a bit I'm pretty sure I was being far too generous when I said 1064x600 at best.
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Once the displays internal scaler gets a hold of the signal and needs to scale it, there is no way you could possibly discern what shortcoming was the cause of the image quality.

First off, the 360 is outputting 720p, 1024x600 is not an output option so even at its native output it would be scaling the image once. Second, the Samsung needs to scale the image to its OWN native resolution(1440x900 as you claim). So between all the scaling that would need to happen in this example its impossible to tell what the actual natively rendered resolution.
 
I know how rescaling works and I understand that you might not be able to tell the difference, but I sure can and if I counldn't I wouldn't have made the claim in the first place.
 
do "press xbox360's" have internal framebuffer grab posibilities? otherwise i think its hard to tell the real native resolution ... no?
 
Yeah, a framegrab from a dev kit would be the easy way, but assuming you understand how upscaling works you can still get a general idea of what resolution something is running at by looking at the output on the screen. The problem comes in presenting evidence of that, as while capturing off component is possible it also requires madly expensive hardware.
 
kyleb said:
I know how rescaling works and I understand that you might not be able to tell the difference, but I sure can and if I counldn't I wouldn't have made the claim in the first place.
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What specifically "gives it away" in your eyes?
 
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