Peter Moore G4TV interview online - devs voice their concerns
- Thread starter Confidence-Man
- Start date
I'm a bit uncomfortable with the statement streaming from the memory and the DVD drive? I’m not quite convinced the method will be better that with the Xbox. Two separate skus to grow the install base. I really don’t see the point in the core system it worthless, but I really want to see how the situation pans out. The premium system will be in higher quantity for the first few months (finally some good news).
OOooOoO Peter Moore said he played PDZ....and said it was spectacular! (and Kameo to)...I can't wait for fricken TGS..I have more anticipation for TGS then I did with E3...
PS: I understand that hes going to say its good no matter what...but still. I want to see what PDZ looks like now
On Topic: Devs seemed concerned...but the sky deffinatly isn't falling. The initial shock factor is gone. I guess there substituting the HDD with the 12x DVDROM and as everyone said...there using the extra RAM as a reason why the HDD is gone.
PS: I understand that hes going to say its good no matter what...but still. I want to see what PDZ looks like now
On Topic: Devs seemed concerned...but the sky deffinatly isn't falling. The initial shock factor is gone. I guess there substituting the HDD with the 12x DVDROM and as everyone said...there using the extra RAM as a reason why the HDD is gone.
mckmas8808
Legend
BlueTsunami said:
But isn't that excuse kind of lame?
Qroach said:
I think if Devs KNEW this...then what there doing now (when you hear them voicing there dissapproval of this decision) is them probably echoing how they felt when MS told them not to rely on the HDD in the way that Oblivion probably will.
BlueTsunami said:
I'm pretty sure that if you polled all the devs, if the choice was between 512MB of memory or a hard disk, 100% of them would choose the 512MB of memory.
I bet the grumbling would be 100x more intense right now if MS had gone with 256MB of memory AND a hard disk.
512 MB RAM AND a HD is probably not practical simply for cost reasons.
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The PS2 didn't have a hard drive, and the PS3 probably won't either. In light of this, it only stands to reason MS is creating a version of the XBox360 that doesn't include one. It will be important for the upcoming price battle with the PS3. If MS had guaranteed the presence of a hard drive in every console then, it would have to be included at every price point. Now they have the flexibility to offer a package that includes any combination of components they choose; DVD, HD-DVD, wireless, wifi, remotes, hard drives, etc.
For the platform to be viable, it has to be financially stable, and the simple fact is they can't afford high losses on every console sold; as much as we would like them to. With the core system they can consistently have a lower priced next-gen gaming option vs. Sony, and offer premium or premium plus (HD-DVD) packages that offer greater functionality at competative prices against the PS3. All without taking a bath on the hardware.
AND, If most titles are going to end up being cross-platform anyway, then developers can't really design a game with a hard drive in mind in the first place. It would have only mattered on the console exclusives, which are likely to going to get some level of hard drive support regardless.
AND, because backwards compatibility only works with a hard drive, then MS only has to license the rights to NVidia specific extensions on drives sold not consoles sold. This is just speculation on my part, but possible.
I think it's important that MS started off with the two SKU's on day one, rather than all of a sudden releasing a non-hd version 6 months after launch. Once units are in homes and people have bought what they want, no one will care. It's an issue of the moment, and a typical response to change.
For the platform to be viable, it has to be financially stable, and the simple fact is they can't afford high losses on every console sold; as much as we would like them to. With the core system they can consistently have a lower priced next-gen gaming option vs. Sony, and offer premium or premium plus (HD-DVD) packages that offer greater functionality at competative prices against the PS3. All without taking a bath on the hardware.
AND, If most titles are going to end up being cross-platform anyway, then developers can't really design a game with a hard drive in mind in the first place. It would have only mattered on the console exclusives, which are likely to going to get some level of hard drive support regardless.
AND, because backwards compatibility only works with a hard drive, then MS only has to license the rights to NVidia specific extensions on drives sold not consoles sold. This is just speculation on my part, but possible.
I think it's important that MS started off with the two SKU's on day one, rather than all of a sudden releasing a non-hd version 6 months after launch. Once units are in homes and people have bought what they want, no one will care. It's an issue of the moment, and a typical response to change.
MechanizedDeath
Regular
Is it just that the site won't load, or is it that the mp3 won't open for you? It worked fine for me. I think it's still in my /temp folder. I can try upping it to another site if you can't get the link to work. But if it's an mp3 problem, then I guess you'll have to wait for a transcript. PM me if you want me to upload it somewhere for you. PEACE.ninzel said:
Rockster said:
Oh man, what if MS would have just left out the graphics chip too. Then they could have saved even more money. They could really screw with Sony then with their prices. Actually, maybe if we're lucky they will offer a third sku. I don't know about yall but i like having choices. And if 2 is good then 3 must be even better.
I would be really interested in find who these developers are. I mean, most developers that are actually working on X360 games are not going to say the things I heard in that MP3. It's too inflammatory to the guy who's going to make your game run.
I'd be somewhat surprised if they are the bigger names, and if they are, I'd like to hear more of what they have to say than G4's little editing-to-maximize-shock-factor job.
I'd be somewhat surprised if they are the bigger names, and if they are, I'd like to hear more of what they have to say than G4's little editing-to-maximize-shock-factor job.
It is quite interestings... for obvious "TV" reasons they mainly had negative positions, anyhow...
Each time period is a new dev talking. All gross paraphrases
1:03 "Who is the market for the Core ($299) system? I don't think there is a market for that"
1:14 "I think the Core system will be the main SKU because most consumers are price conscious... but I think they will sell more Premium packages"
1:28 They will sell more premium packages because it is more cool
1:36 two platforms from dev standpoint
1:42 It wont affect how we develop on the 360. It has 512MB of memory and that is the biggest win in the system and gives us a tremendous amount of space to make your game. The main concern is having memory for your game to run, not to store content.
1:53 We will have to aim toward the core system
1:59 We have to assume that not all cosumers have a HDD
2:06 You try to do something new and unique, do something different, if you have to dumb it down to get it on the core system then you are trying to do something that is not elevating the console but something that hits every console
Moore says je did not hear the same things from other devs (Ubi, Activision, etc) who he has been talking with. Moore proceeds to defend the move saying they move was for the system memory--it is all about the system memory which is EXPENSIVE.
The core system is about increasing the install base... MS made it clear one of their goals is to grow the industry and this is just one avenue to grow the industry. Price point is very important in the gaming industry so offering a base SKU was important. He makes it clear that HDD or not it will be transparant to the end user.
"Everyone is saying blah blah" Boy they tag team him from the get go and they really nag. One of the WORSE interviews I have ever seen. Instead of asking questions and getting feedback and then discussing that it is like they are bickering! Moore does a good job keeping his cool IMO and giving actual replies... even if they are not what some people want to hear. One of the next questions is "Are you abonding the hardcore gamer"...
Moore notes that the Premium SKU selling best and that the launch will be very heavy Premium SKU early. No gurantees on PDZ 0 day launch
The one thing that really stood out to me was the dev complaining that no HDD limited his game types and features...
And while technically true
1. That did not stop most devs from totally ignoring it this gen
2. In the context of "platforms" it is really clear most of these guys are cross platform, and in that light they would not design with the HDD in mind anyhow unless it was an exclusive. Their own thought process on the SKUs and on hitting the most customers is pretty clear... as is how they treated this gen.
IMO if more devs had made quality use of the HDD with the Xbox1 MS might have bit the bullet. (Or made it even harder choice... as it is it does seem that MS is really trying to get as many people to buy the HDD as possible). The same issue devs in the video complain about--more than one "platform" (one devs words) and creative uses of it--were the same situation this gen with very little movement.
As much as I hate it (I am a hardcore gamer!) I think MS did the right move to get a the Xbox as cheap as possible into the market. The quicker they hit $200 and $150 the better for all gamers on the platform. While cutting the HDD hurts in some ways, it wont affect the actual gameplay too much in 95% of games. While going with 256MB of memory would hurt every game.
Anyhow I found the interviewers ANNOYING. They were pretty insistant to call it "2 systems". It is one system, one comes with a bundle that includes a large HDD for game content storage, the other comes as a basic setup like almost every other console (sans Xbox1) has ever shipped. The worse thing that happens with the HDD is that it is a super memory card and used for DLing stuff off live and gets 0 game support. The last time I checked that did not make it a new system.
Each time period is a new dev talking. All gross paraphrases
1:03 "Who is the market for the Core ($299) system? I don't think there is a market for that"
1:14 "I think the Core system will be the main SKU because most consumers are price conscious... but I think they will sell more Premium packages"
1:28 They will sell more premium packages because it is more cool
1:36 two platforms from dev standpoint
1:42 It wont affect how we develop on the 360. It has 512MB of memory and that is the biggest win in the system and gives us a tremendous amount of space to make your game. The main concern is having memory for your game to run, not to store content.
1:53 We will have to aim toward the core system
1:59 We have to assume that not all cosumers have a HDD
2:06 You try to do something new and unique, do something different, if you have to dumb it down to get it on the core system then you are trying to do something that is not elevating the console but something that hits every console
Moore says je did not hear the same things from other devs (Ubi, Activision, etc) who he has been talking with. Moore proceeds to defend the move saying they move was for the system memory--it is all about the system memory which is EXPENSIVE.
The core system is about increasing the install base... MS made it clear one of their goals is to grow the industry and this is just one avenue to grow the industry. Price point is very important in the gaming industry so offering a base SKU was important. He makes it clear that HDD or not it will be transparant to the end user.
"Everyone is saying blah blah" Boy they tag team him from the get go and they really nag. One of the WORSE interviews I have ever seen. Instead of asking questions and getting feedback and then discussing that it is like they are bickering! Moore does a good job keeping his cool IMO and giving actual replies... even if they are not what some people want to hear. One of the next questions is "Are you abonding the hardcore gamer"...
Moore notes that the Premium SKU selling best and that the launch will be very heavy Premium SKU early. No gurantees on PDZ 0 day launch
The one thing that really stood out to me was the dev complaining that no HDD limited his game types and features...
And while technically true
1. That did not stop most devs from totally ignoring it this gen
2. In the context of "platforms" it is really clear most of these guys are cross platform, and in that light they would not design with the HDD in mind anyhow unless it was an exclusive. Their own thought process on the SKUs and on hitting the most customers is pretty clear... as is how they treated this gen.
IMO if more devs had made quality use of the HDD with the Xbox1 MS might have bit the bullet. (Or made it even harder choice... as it is it does seem that MS is really trying to get as many people to buy the HDD as possible). The same issue devs in the video complain about--more than one "platform" (one devs words) and creative uses of it--were the same situation this gen with very little movement.
As much as I hate it (I am a hardcore gamer!) I think MS did the right move to get a the Xbox as cheap as possible into the market. The quicker they hit $200 and $150 the better for all gamers on the platform. While cutting the HDD hurts in some ways, it wont affect the actual gameplay too much in 95% of games. While going with 256MB of memory would hurt every game.
Anyhow I found the interviewers ANNOYING. They were pretty insistant to call it "2 systems". It is one system, one comes with a bundle that includes a large HDD for game content storage, the other comes as a basic setup like almost every other console (sans Xbox1) has ever shipped. The worse thing that happens with the HDD is that it is a super memory card and used for DLing stuff off live and gets 0 game support. The last time I checked that did not make it a new system.
