It really is f'ked up. That was one of the very, very few moments that hit me hard while watching animation of any kind. Which makes the picture even more hilarious.
Oh and... Amd/nvidia! Gameworks! See, I'm on topic.
"PCR: AMD slams tragic Gameworks" closed why?
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Oh and... Amd/nvidia! Gameworks! See, I'm on topic.
I'm not sure every moderator action needs a note and I didn't ask for that, but rather notes for big decisions, such as the closing of ordered, well-behaved threads like the one in the title of this thread.
So I posted here, and I can't help noticing that even with your post here we still don't have an official reason why the thread in question was closed. It's getting a bit ridiculous now, just say why it was closed, alright? Is it really so difficult?
As you may have noticed, I didn't call anyone biased, I said that suddenly closing a thread with no clear and obvious problems without offering an explanation, after taking a stand in it, could be construed by some people as bias. That's an entirely different thing. This is also enough of an issue that others appear to agree with me in this thread. You should therefore create new policy to address this, such as requiring any thread closure to state specifically why the thread was closed.
This would be helpful and instructive for forum-goers (like reminding people not to create duplicate topics for example), and would not take a burdensome amount of time for the moderator either. Typing "thread closed because: *reason*" and hitting the post button should take no more than what, ten seconds at most?
IMO; just closing a thread with no further explanation has a vaguely Stalinistic aroma about it, TBH.
Infinisearch
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On Topic:
Was going to post this in the closed thread.
Does Nvidia really have a choice in pushing Gameworks the way it does? In quite a few places I've seen people lean AMD with the basic reasoning that there are advantages going AMD because both consoles are AMD. Is Gameworks Nvidia's equal and opposite reaction? (I don't remember when they went from an open to closed source stance)
I was also going to post that if graphics card companies do graphical technique research, is it really wrong for them to try to monetize it in some way, after all it's not as if game companies have R&D budgets do they?
That last part was in response a part of Roderic's thread ending post.
Off topic:
edit - Anohana the series not the movie.
Was going to post this in the closed thread.
Does Nvidia really have a choice in pushing Gameworks the way it does? In quite a few places I've seen people lean AMD with the basic reasoning that there are advantages going AMD because both consoles are AMD. Is Gameworks Nvidia's equal and opposite reaction? (I don't remember when they went from an open to closed source stance)
I was also going to post that if graphics card companies do graphical technique research, is it really wrong for them to try to monetize it in some way, after all it's not as if game companies have R&D budgets do they?
That last part was in response a part of Roderic's thread ending post.
Off topic:
If you don't mind lack of action, do what I did and go in spoiler free and watch Anohana: The Flower We Saw That Day. (japanese name: Ano Hi Mita Hana no Namae o Bokutachi wa Mada Shiranai) I'm not particularly emotional but that one almost got me. Also if you want sad/mad watch Grave of the Fireflies.
edit - Anohana the series not the movie.
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It was closed because it was noisy, lopsided and didn't add anything to the existing discussions we already have going on Gameworks. The link could have just been posted in the main Gameworks commentary thread, and I think trinibwoy knows that all too well.
That was aimed at pharma, not you. Sorry that wasn't obvious.
Agreed, the moderation team should be more accountable to the users for their actions. I'll address that with them.
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I did PM Rys with my concerns this morning and did apologize for noting what I perceived as bias in the manner the thread was closed as well as another issue which Rys agreed to look into. It's amazing what you can learn about a person when you communicate with them via PM, and would suggest this method if you have any concerns about forum posts or how it's being moderated.
Thanks again for your help.
Thanks again for your help.
I see the existence of Gameworks as more a reaction to the general industry shift to multi-platform console development rather than GCN-related specifics of the current consoles. While AMD and Intel are spread across several different markets, Nvidia's success and future is still very much tied to discrete PC graphics and gaming. Game development costs are much higher than they used to be 10-20 years ago, so we now more than ever have a situation where major development efforts are built around a lowest common denominator base platform. The consoles and PC platforms are architecturally more similar than they've ever been while the performance gap will be larger than it's ever been. Couple that with the fact that we're living in an age of $650-1000 graphics cards and it would make sense for Nvidia to find some way of building value into their highest margin products other than being 4K/8K/multi-monitor console game accelerators. If major studios are unable or unwilling to spend the money to leverage high-end PC hardware then Nvidia has to find a way to alleviate the cost - if you want 'better pixels' rather than just 'more pixels' then someone needs to pay for them. I don't think the call for Nvidia to sit idly by and not get "involved other than drivers and research papers" comes without a price.
I see the gameworks debate really as a conflation of three separate topics: the existence of proactive IHV dev rel initiatives, the degree to which they're open/closed, and the actual end result/execution/value of them. The problem is that some of that treads on topics that are emotionally charged and ideological in nature which causes feathers to get ruffled too easily.
Great post hughJ. Completely agree that the merit of the program has a lot to do with execution and it's not a simple matter of being inherently good or bad.
I don't support the idea that PC gamers should be content with a limited experience dictated by console hardware capabilities. I applaud nvidia or any company that is willing to invest their own capital to extract more value from PC hardware if publishers and developers are unwilling or unable to do so.
I don't support the idea that PC gamers should be content with a limited experience dictated by console hardware capabilities. I applaud nvidia or any company that is willing to invest their own capital to extract more value from PC hardware if publishers and developers are unwilling or unable to do so.
So you agree with him yet your next sentence show you haven't understood what he said.
Developers & publishers are neither unwilling nor unable to improve their games on PC, it just costs more and if it doesn't generate more income there's no reason to spend that money.
Then enters nVidia, which very existence relies on selling high end graphics cards to video gamers, it has two competitors, Intel and AMD, both have CPU with iGPU but they don't compete in the segment occupied by nVidia, however AMD also competes in that market. Instead of releasing better hardware and supporting developers to make better PC games (which you claim), it sees an opportunity to shut down its competitors by giving away free technology that is willingly implemented to impair competing hardware. nVidia isn't doing anyone but itself a favour here.
Now what really pisses me off with your claims, beyond that nVidia is a nice guy (which isn't the case at all, it's a company here to make a profit which will do anything to keep its market, as proven with benchmark cheats in the past, paying community people, providing technical solution willingly hurting competitors hardware performance and so on...), but that developers are unwilling to make better games, as if... on the planet you are from, people who work in the game business don't want to make the best games they can...
People who work on games only do so because they love games, not because of the salary (really bad), not because of the yearly bonus (usually none), not because of the working hours either (usually long with insane crunches), only because they genuinely love games, many of those people could massively increase their salaries if they went to work for Google, Apple, Microsoft, or another major software company (+50% to +100%), so don't dare say they are unwilling to do so.
As for the unable to do so, if you mean they don't have the skills, I guarantee there's a fair amount of game devs who are leaps and bounds better than 90% software devs out there...
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It's clear from the post above yours why the thread was closed. Is stifling debate because you disagree with one side of an issue a valid use of mod powers?
It doesn't matter why they're unwilling. If they do the cost/benefit analysis and conclude that PC specific features are not worth it that still falls into the "unwilling" category.
They see an opportunity to make their products stand out, increase market share and profitability. That opportunity exists because of the large gap in capabilities between PC hardware and the software that runs on it. As a consumer I welcome any efforts to close that gap.
I'll skip your first assertion that I claimed nVidia is a "nice guy" because I've obviously never claimed that. You don't need to misrepresent my position to make a point.
I don't know any game devs personally. I don't know anything about their finances, their work environment or their motivations. Maybe you are one or are friends with devs so find my view offensive (I really don't know why you're pissed off). All I know is what I see in front of me when I start up a game. And what I see for the most part is software that does not fully unlock the potential of the hardware in my machine. It's not clear to me why stating that basic fact is somehow an insult to game developers and publishers or justification for the thread closure.
The other Gameworks threads are still open, nobody is stifling anything. You just posted that link in the wrong place to start with, get over it.
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