Ops,"I" did it again. Why does Futuremark still ke

[digitalwanderer]

I notice some of you guys wondering what nVidia will do to regain their credability regarding the FM fiasco. I'll tell you right now what they'll do: Nothing. In their eyes, they've done no wrong. They even have an official statement from FM to back it up.

What about community credability? Why worry about it? In a few months, thanks to their massive PR machine and the hoards of n[V]idiots swarming around all over the place, most people will either have forgotten about the whole long list of nV BS, or will be simply labeled a "fanboi" everytime they bring it up and their thoughts simply discarded. Credability regained. Sales up. Problem solved.

No way, it won't happen. They tried that and it just didn't work.

If they do try that route, they'll die. I'll call that one right now.

 

[dream caster]

I think that reading this forum every day would be enough punishment and cure for Nvidia officers!

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Ah, but that then begs the question of why they are now endorsing it!

Who says they are 'endorsing iit? *IF* NV did indeed rejoin the BETA program it is for 3DM04, not 3DM03.

In an investors/analyst conference call a few days ago, Nvidia pointed to a 5900 being top of 3Dmark2003 ORB as a "good thing". That's endorsement.
Nvidia didn't mention anything about cheating drivers in relation to the high scoring.

 

[digitalwanderer]

I think that reading this forum every day would be enough punishment and cure for Nvidia officers!

I think that nVidia officers are only allowed to read [H]ard, Anand, & THG...they don't like negative thoughts.

 

[just me]

Ah, but that then begs the question of why they are now endorsing it!

Who says they are 'endorsing iit? *IF* NV did indeed rejoin the BETA program it is for 3DM04, not 3DM03.

In an investors/analyst conference call a few days ago, Nvidia pointed to a 5900 being top of 3Dmark2003 ORB as a "good thing". That's endorsement.
Nvidia didn't mention anything about cheating drivers in relation to the high scoring.

I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. Wouldn't remember when this was, would you? (Wondering if it was before or after FM changed the ORB recently & if after > how soon. )

I did read the excerpt of the IRQ chat where NV said they do read web boards & I'd bet this one is scrutinized.

 

[just me]

Wondering if it was before or after FM changed the ORB recently & if after > how soon.

Man I'm slow. :?

Tero strikes a deal w/NV over the cheats. NV agrees not to optimize & FM says they'll not allow cheats. Neither side keeps its' word. AJ is 1 of 2 founders of FM (Markus Maki [Remedy] is the other, FWIW). Tero & AJ set benchmark policy. FM places the 5900U on top so NV can make that statement. AJ is pissed that his creation is being manipulated & that cheats were allowed & the 5900U is on top for mere marketing means. {I wondered why FM was soo defensive when I asked them for proof on the 5900U being on top!}

AJ leaves & Tero is left to set policy & allow the 'optimizations'. Tero is VP, Marketing & Sales. His job is 'the bottom line' $$$.

Business is business & nice guys finnish last. (pun intended, sorry AJ)

Close enough Dave? He's going to stay on the Board of Directors tho', right? Where does Patrics' statements concerning NV & that 'demo' fit in?

 

[digitalwanderer]

Wouldn't remember when this was, would you? (Wondering if it was before or after FM changed the ORB recently & if after > how soon. )

I did read the excerpt of the IRQ chat where NV said they do read web boards & I'd bet this one is scrutinized.

Thursday was the conference call and Friday their stock went down 19%+ and ATi passed 'em for biggest market capitilization or some such.

There's a thread on the conference call here and there's a thread in that link that you can listen to the conference call yourself.

It's the same call where they bragged about the 5900 Ultra having a 67% lead over the comptetion and that the 5900 Ultra was currently the fastest card in 3dm2k3, the "industries most prestigious graphics benchmark" or some such.

Go read, it's a fun one.

 

[just me]

Thanks Digi, been awhile. Hope this finds you & yours well. Both kids in school soon?

The 'saving grace' is gonna be when IBM takes a bite outta NV.

Off to read. 8)

 

[digitalwanderer]

Thanks Digi, been awhile. Hope this finds you & yours well.

The family is good, but I think I'm a bit stressed. (At least I've been getting an awful lot of PMs the last few days of people telling me so... :bleh: )

Both kids in school soon?

Two weeks and a handful of hours, first time in about 4-5 years I'm going to actually get some type of regular time off. I'm excited as hell at the idea of going back to work...if I make it thru the next two weeks.

The 'saving grace' is gonna be when IBM takes a bite outta NV.

Hmm? How so? I missed this angle. :|

Did you see the thread about nVidia moving down to the #2 spot behind ATi on Friday?

FUN time to be a color commentator, tomorrow should be even better! 8)

 

[WaltC]

I notice some of you guys wondering what nVidia will do to regain their credability regarding the FM fiasco. I'll tell you right now what they'll do: Nothing. In their eyes, they've done no wrong. They even have an official statement from FM to back it up.

What about community credability? Why worry about it? In a few months, thanks to their massive PR machine and the hoards of n[V]idiots swarming around all over the place, most people will either have forgotten about the whole long list of nV BS, or will be simply labeled a "fanboi" everytime they bring it up and their thoughts simply discarded. Credability regained. Sales up. Problem solved.

No way, it won't happen. They tried that and it just didn't work.

If they do try that route, they'll die. I'll call that one right now.

Yes, nVidia's been on the PR bandwagon for months and the issue hasn't gone away, and isn't likely to, unless...nVidia begins selling elegant, competitive 3d hardware. In which case they can adopt the much easier position of letting their hardware essentially sell itself. I doubt the issues will recede until then. What nVidia could do until then to diffuse these issues is to own up to some things publicly, pledge to fix them, and move on from there. But as long as the company refuses to own up to its responsibility in these matters I have little confidence better hardware is on the way...

 

[CapsLock]

I called this one back when FM recanted its cheating statement. Right there you knew it was only going to get worse. In a thread at R3D I suggested to Catalyst Maker that it was time for Ati to withdraw from FM's program. They had the right to do it then and didn't of course. Now look how its developing. FM can't survive without the support of both companies. Ati could make a very prominent splash and get some very good coverage here. They would dramatically reveal the "problem" and nvidia's cheating. If they stay, they will only get taken for a ride. I also used the phrase, "They made thier bed", as Fred did. But instead of cheating in 3DM as Fred suggested, I think they should just abandon it and stand with fair benchmarks (if they can find them). Bad on FM, though of course they might have always been scr@#ed anyway, 3DMark is a battlefield and it was bound to get ugly at some point.

Caps

 

[hjs]

if this is true, ATI won't leave the beta program

Are ATI, Nvidia colluding to cool down graphics war

HERE'S AN INTERESTING rumour that's come our way.
Rather than battle each other hammer and tongs, sources claim that ATI and Nvidia have recently had meetings in an effort to put the brakes on the speed at which new graphics products are released.

The story goes that both companies are weary of the huge money they're putting into research and development, and the subsequent hammering they get from the gentlefolk of the press if launch dates are missed

http://theinquirer.net/?article=10952

Or is nVidia losing it and try other ways to survive?

 

[Fred da Roza]

Yes, nVidia's been on the PR bandwagon for months and the issue hasn't gone away, and isn't likely to, unless...nVidia begins selling elegant, competitive 3d hardware. In which case they can adopt the much easier position of letting their hardware essentially sell itself. I doubt the issues will recede until then. What nVidia could do until then to diffuse these issues is to own up to some things publicly, pledge to fix them, and move on from there. But as long as the company refuses to own up to its responsibility in these matters I have little confidence better hardware is on the way...

I doubt you will see nVidia stop their antics until they have a competitive product. Until then it will be cheat and deny to buy themselves time. Some may say that NV35 is competitive. Clearly in nVidia's eyes it isn't competative enough. Otherwise we wouldn't be seeing NV40 so soon. Three top end chips released in one year have to eat up a lot of R&D cash. Even when NV40 comes out I doubt it will stop. ATI still has a big trump card to play with their impending die shrink.

 

[Fred da Roza]

But instead of cheating in 3DM as Fred suggested, I think they should just abandon it and stand with fair benchmarks (if they can find them). Bad on FM, though of course they might have always been scr@#ed anyway, 3DMark is a battlefield and it was bound to get ugly at some point.

Caps

Unfortunately ATI can't stop anyone from using 3DMark as they see fit. So even if ATI disassociates themselves from it, that won't stop review sites from using it.

 

[Quitch]

More importantly, it won't stop OEMs from using it.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Close enough Dave?

Ithink the words "rampant speculation" and "running away with" might be suitable here!

 

[Hanners]

What about community credability? Why worry about it?

The suprising thing is that they are genuinely worried about it, or appear to be from what I've seen and heard in the last few weeks. Whether they can change and move away from the pattern they've followed for years remains to be seen, but I think they are beginning to realise where they're going wrong.

I think that nVidia officers are only allowed to read [H]ard, Anand, & THG...they don't like negative thoughts.

No no, they are allowed to read other sites, but only while wearing the nVidia standard issue tinfoil hat.

 

[digitalwanderer]

What about community credability? Why worry about it?

The suprising thing is that they are genuinely worried about it, or appear to be from what I've seen and heard in the last few weeks. Whether they can change and move away from the pattern they've followed for years remains to be seen, but I think they are beginning to realise where they're going wrong.

I totally agree with ya. (Again, go figure. )

Derek Perez has been being very nice to me in e-mails and is talking like he is aware that there is a very real problem with nVidia and the enthusiast community and that it is actually starting to affect/hurt nVidia and they want to try and do something to fix it.

Finding something to do to fix it and still staying within nVidia's corporate policies is a REAL biatch so far...I don't think they're going to be able to do it without some major corporate policy re-shaping.

But hey, that's what over-paid private consultants are for...right?

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Derek Perez has been being very nice to me in e-mails and is talking like he is aware that there is a very real problem with nVidia and the enthusiast community and that it is actually starting to affect/hurt nVidia and they want to try and do something to fix it.

Finding something to do to fix it and still staying within nVidia's corporate policies is a REAL biatch so far...I don't think they're going to be able to do it without some major corporate policy re-shaping.

But hey, that's what over-paid private consultants are for...right?

If you're trying to fix the base causes of their problems, but not change any corporate policies, then it is just lip service. It means they don't want to change, they just want to "handle" the situation. Be careful you don't end up like Kyle, convinced that you are having an effect on Nvidia because they "listen to you", when in fact they are just running a PR game to try and convince everyone they are not lying.

 

[digitalwanderer]

If you're trying to fix the base causes of their problems, but not change any corporate policies, then it is just lip service. It means they don't want to change, they just want to "handle" the situation. Be careful you don't end up like Kyle, convinced that you are having an effect on Nvidia because they "listen to you", when in fact they are just running a PR game to try and convince everyone they are not lying.

I have the weirdest feeling that's not gonna be a problem for me, one of the greatest luxuries I give myself is I always try and be as open and honest as humanly possible when "being Dig" and it's just too valuable too me to give up.

That's why I'm sort of shocked at how cool he's being in the correspondence....I'm not pulling any punches about what I think is wrong and what they have to do to fix it. (Although I'm not cursing or ranting as much...if they'll try, I'll try. )

Then again, he hasn't gotten very deeply into any answers yet either.

We'll see. It's interesting if nothing else.